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One thing however that I am concerned about this new-found anger against the wealthy. I share that anger against these sleazebag CEO's. But the usual result of income redistribution are government policies that create not more middle class and less rich class, but more poor class and less rich class. As more of the recepients of these entitlement programs and tax benifits are the poor, not the middle class. Anything that punishes a person for being rich also rewards a person for being poor. The american dream is to not be a fat happy poor person, but to develop yourself and in turn become rich (and, as a result of these efforts, create wealth and jobs for the nation) - lets not punish that.
This is one the smartest thing I have read yet. I agree with this, people are so busy blaming the CEO's that the truth is blowing right past you. When government says they are going after the rich it has ALWAYS HURTS the middle class.
Obama said that the middle class will not have to pay one more dime in taxes yet with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, the middle class is WILL pay more in taxes. The middle class is so blinded by the anger toward the rich that they are voting for the very president that will make the middle class pay more in taxes. Are you really that desperate to tax the rich that you are willing to pay higher taxes yourself?
If you make around $50k a year, you will enjoy aprox $2700.00 increase in taxes per year, that is an extra $225.00 per month that has to come out of your take home pay. An example of a past "tax the rich" is the ATM tax. It was meant to tax people who are "considered rich" but it was not adjusted for inflation so it hits more and more middle class Americans each year. Put the anger aside and look into it. Obama made it clear that he WILL let the tax cuts expire and YOU, the middle class will pay higher taxes. So much for Obama and his promise.
My son worked all last summer for Hobby Lobby, as a grounds keeper in Oklahoma City for $11.50 a hour. His only education is a GED. Here in OKC that provided him with a nice apartment, money for his car payment and insurance, as well as his other expenses. He saved enough to put himself into trade school this year.
Sorry, the American Dream is not dead. But of course for those who insist it is, it probably is.
Your sons story happened in a time where the climate was very different. Obama is rewarding the people who do nothing and is penalizing the middle class and upper class. Those CEO's, they will skirt past this because they can afford to make moves to avoid paying the higher taxes.
If Obama gets re-elected the American Dream is officially dead. He will not give the middle class a windfall of money. He will only take more money from you. I am from the middle class, educated, worked hard, good job, but feeling poor just like everyone else I could not figure out what I was doing wrong. The most important thing I learned and put me on the road to a better life was to stop using credit cards to support a lifestyle, it keeps you in the poor house. I know, the same old advise but I lived it. When you are debt free you feel kind of rich. After that I used credit cards (air miles) but alway had the money to pay them off in full when the bill become due. NO POSSESSION, NO STEAK DINNER is worth giving up the peace of mind of being debt free.
After living debt free for years I started a business, successful it put me in upper class financially but by no means rich. The reason that I say the American Dream is dead is that I pay so much in taxes that I am afraid to spend a dime since I have to pay so much in taxes. I know its hard for someone to understand and some will post something nasty toward me but being middle class, moving to the lower middle class and starting to climb out and the government and taxation is making sure it keeps me and other people who are trying down. The super rich, they will avoid it because they have the money and the means.
If you ever dreamed of owning your own business, as your success increases your money will be taken away through taxation, and now if Obama gets re-elected, the highest taxes in the world, the dream of climbing out of the poor house will be dead. Another note, is the middle class will also pay higher taxes.
The middle class has been whittled away for years now. People didn't notice because credit (debt) was cheap and easy so they racked it up. Salaries stagnated but prices went up.
People who used debt to support their lifestyle were caught in a rat race. By using debt, demand went up, increasing prices but the pay rates did not go up to meet the increasing prices, so people went higher in debt to continue to support their lifestyle and prices went up further. Eventually the bottom dropped out.
The reason it happened is important to understand but what you do to fix your situation is also important. It is not going to be easy and unfortunately for some not possible but do what you can to get out of debt.
This is one the smartest thing I have read yet. I agree with this, people are so busy blaming the CEO's that the truth is blowing right past you. When government says they are going after the rich it has ALWAYS HURTS the middle class.
Obama said that the middle class will not have to pay one more dime in taxes yet with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, the middle class is WILL pay more in taxes. The middle class is so blinded by the anger toward the rich that they are voting for the very president that will make the middle class pay more in taxes. Are you really that desperate to tax the rich that you are willing to pay higher taxes yourself?
If you make around $50k a year, you will enjoy aprox $2700.00 increase in taxes per year, that is an extra $225.00 per month that has to come out of your take home pay. An example of a past "tax the rich" is the ATM tax. It was meant to tax people who are "considered rich" but it was not adjusted for inflation so it hits more and more middle class Americans each year. Put the anger aside and look into it. Obama made it clear that he WILL let the tax cuts expire and YOU, the middle class will pay higher taxes. So much for Obama and his promise.
Do you want to continue social security and medicare? If so, everyone needs to pay more taxes. Those programs are bankrupting our country, especially medicare. Without it, I really don't know how seniors are going to afford insurance. It doesn't cost me anything to have my $4500 deductible since I don't use health care, since my yearly physicals in high school for sports I've been to a doctor once in ten years. That's not the case when you get old. My grandma is on about eight different meds, she sees her primary care doctor every three months, and she has three specialists she goes to twice a year. That's not that uncommon for someone in her 80s.
If you want to talk about the cuts we'll make, I'm all ears. Personally, I'm not the greatest fan of social security and medicare. I don't really see how I could opt out of it with screwing over the people who paid in, however. Probably the best thing would be to reduce benefits. That's what the Lindsey Graham proposal calls for. Increase the retirement age to 70 years and cut the social security benefits by 40% for the average contributor. It's a good plan. It hits the upper incomes hardest and is fazed in gradually over time. Sucks for someone like me who will be looking at a 40%+ reduction in social security benefits, but that's what's necessary without tax increases. That's just the reality of how bad social security is, and medicare is worse. Way worse.
This could be dangerous -- too much inequality can create political instability. So, is the right thing to do tax the wealthy (a lot) and give their wealth to the poor? I hope not--I tend to hate that idea...but I don't have a better one.....???
Obama promised the middle class jobs and where are they?
Remember, Obama wants to give to the poor, not the middle class. He still sees you as making money and therefor a piggy bank to raise more government revenue.
He promised that the middle class would not have to pay another dime more in taxes, and with the expiration of the Bush tax breaks (that also give tax breaks for the middle class), with the expiration, the middle class will pay more in taxes. Forget a tax refund, plan on having more money taken out each payday or at the end of 2013 you will have to write a check.
Is it the poor that produce jobs? I believe it is the upper middle and the rich combined with people who have jobs, get to keep their money so they spend that money which in turn creates more demand, a workers market who can then demand higher pay etc. The poor produce nothing and certainly can not give you a raise. The government takes money from the people who produce and who make an income and the poor (welfare) only take money out without paying in.
If you want to divide a people, convince them a certain group are at fault and encourage so much hatred that people will not question the validity or look at other causes.
Its very hard, and often impossible for members of the lower classes to succeed through entrepreneurship, which, in the past, was the best way to move out of the lower classes.
Where did all that money go? Well, it went to men like Bill Gates, the Walton family, Warren Buffet. That massive pile of money they are sitting on has erased the "American Dream" for THOUSANDS of people.
It is very true that in todays world it is very difficult but if Obama gets re-elected forget the dream ever existed. What ever class you are in now is the highest class you can go but not the lowest class. He is killing the American dream.
A successful entrepreneur moves up through stages. If you "have a dream" and start in the lower class, you move through the mid-middle class and you get taxed high, greatly keeping you down and hindering your ability to move higher up. If you are lucky and not in a funny farm from all the stress of owning a business and you are able to move to lower upper class you are taxed even heavier. Imagine paying 39% of the money you bring in through your hard work.
Your ability to invest in the growth of your business partly which is the hiring of more employees, that money goes to the government to pay for the non-productive, does not do a think for your company type people.
You seem to have two themes... one is the burn the rich mentality, which I agree with. The second is this notion that supply-side economics actually works to create jobs. It doesn't. You need demand, and demand by and large doesn't come from the upper-crust of society, it comes from the masses. That's always been the case. The masses were what built NYC (tenement housing, pack 'em in dense-like and make a profit off their demand for housing and basic goods). Unless we're talking about yacht builders, demand is what stimulates the economy. All stimulating the supply does is drive down prices and put people out of business. The typical supply-sider isn't going to hire more workers when he's already got too many for the current demand, he'll just sit on the tax refund and wait for the demand to come back. And in the case of a tax-cut to the wealthy being good for yacht builders, guess why that's the case? You just stimulated demand for yachts by given the yacht-buying base more money in its pockets. Of course, the consequence of either demand-side or supply-side (basically the two sides of Keynesian economic policies) is massive deficits.
I do NOT have a burn the rich mentality! In fact I think people deserve, working poor, middle class, upper middle class, rich deserve to keep the money they worked hard for. Although I believe we do need to pay taxes, please leave some for the people who went to work to produce the money. Don't give it all away to able bodied welfare, the people get paid to do nothing and who will always expect more.
Oh please, we already argued this on this forum. And my take is both supply and demand are both very important and why you always hear both said together. If you hurt one, you do hurt the other, so as you say burn the rich and you will burn the middle class. Burn the middle class, you eventually burn the rich. Did you ever notice how when the government says they are going to tax the rich, exactly what Obama is doing now, its the middle class who always gets hit? The welfare, well, they do nothing but take.
Last edited by eRayP; 07-06-2012 at 01:29 PM..
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