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And yet the seem to be able to buy the lastest gadgets and plasma tvs, get a new car every few years, shopping trips to the mall, and afford at least one vacation a year.
Isn't buy now pay later great? They learn from the best of them (aka the government).
So even though they use the same roads, breathe the same air, benefit from defense, police, fire, and all other government supplied services somehow they shouldn't have to pay taxes?
I think every adult should pay taxes. It is ridiculous that people who don't pay taxes get to vote - and can vote for programs that increase OTHER people's taxes.
There's a reason they implemented the "progressive" tax (also what the Democrats are referred to as, no coincidence). You can generate votes by giving to the majority and taxing the hell out of the minority. Equality for all!! The only thing is, equality would mean everybody works the same hours and exerts the same amount of energy at work. When somebody is taxed nearly 50% for working 100+hr weeks and somebody else can live off the gov't and receive more than a min. wage employee working full-time...then there's something EXTREMELY unequal and unfair with the system.
And yet the seem to be able to buy the lastest gadgets and plasma tvs, get a new car every few years, shopping trips to the mall, and afford at least one vacation a year.
I actually don't watch Glenn Beck. This was all based on common sense and everything I've learned through economics. The only TV I watch is CNBC or ESPN. People that are "rich" work their butt of to get to where they are at. Is it true that 10% of 1,000,000 is much more than 10% of 100,000? YES, those are the rules of math. So of course the rich can compound their wealth at a faster rate, but that is looking at the "rich" after they got to that status level.
You have to look at where they started. 80% of millionaires in this country are self-made, meaning at some point in time they were in the lower middle class or middle class. They chose to save and invest their money instead of spending it on useless consumer products. That is how you produce wealth, you don't produce it by the government giving you free handouts. If you can't become wealthy on your own then you will never be wealthy because it can't be given to you, no matter how many socialist programs you benefit from. Becoming wealthy is a way of life (living frugally and investing) and just because you aren't willing to do that doesn't mean you should punish those that work harder than you. You should look yourself in the mirror when you wake up and figure out what YOU have to do to make a better life for YOU and your family.
If you read "the millionaire next door," you would realize that the average millionaire makes LESS than $100,000/yr and the average Dr. or Lawyer doesn't have enough in their savings to sustain their lifestyle for a year without their income from their job. So yeah it is unfair, you can spin it anyway you want in order to make yourself sleep better at night but at the end of the day these people will still be more successful than you because they worked harder and didn't expect the gov't to give them anything. THAT is something that your opinion WON'T change, no matter how much you b*tch and wine about them having more money than you.
Statistics also show that the average person who inherits substantial wealth from their parents burns through all the money and have nothing left to give their own offspring. So those "spoiled brats" that people complain about, because they were born into wealth, burn through the wealth their parents worked so hard for and they have nothing to leave to the kids. Those are the facts, so no matter how you look at it it still shows that hard work creates wealth. There is no gimmicky formula for the gov't to force wealth down your throat, you have to want it deep down in order to achieve it. No social program will be able to accomplish that.
Just to touch on the flat rate tax, if someone makes 1 million/yr and are taxed 10% then they have to pay $100,000 to the gov't. If someone only makes $100,000/yr and they are taxed 10% then they only pay $10,000 to the gov't. The person that makes 1 million/yr is paying 10x as much as the other guy...so explain to me how that is not fair??!? I would love to hear a rational explanation, not a "well he makes more money than me because he worked harder so I want his money" explanation.
Also, in reference to your Glenn Beck statement, you should take a statistics class and apply it to social standing. You will see that there will be far fewer outliers as you increase taxes (outliers are the extreme to either the right or left, in this case it would be the right outliers indicating the rich) meaning a greater proportion of people will be pushed into the far left outlier (poor) and middle-class standings. The great thing about mathematics is that you can't change the rules of the universe. They apply no matter how much your opinion wants to disagree with them, and at that moment you are faced with the facts and reality.
These kinds of arguments would lead some to conclude that there really is some science in any attempt to determine the "fairness" of economic constructs, the cheerleaders for capitalism just can't accept that old admonition to "look in your wallet" when trying to figure out who is screwing who.......
There's a reason they implemented the "progressive" tax (also what the Democrats are referred to as, no coincidence). You can generate votes by giving to the majority and taxing the hell out of the minority. Equality for all!! The only thing is, equality would mean everybody works the same hours and exerts the same amount of energy at work. When somebody is taxed nearly 50% for working 100+hr weeks and somebody else can live off the gov't and receive more than a min. wage employee working full-time...then there's something EXTREMELY unequal and unfair with the system.
Exactly right. As long as an unfair system like this still exists, the half who do not pay taxes will always vote to tax the half that do pay even more.
The fairest system would be a flat fee for each citizen. However, it wouldn't work in reality because if everyone paid their "fair share" half of the country would not be able to afford it.
A fairer, and more practical system would be a 15% flat tax, capped at a certain point. Liberals like to misrepresent this as making the middle class pay the same amount as the ultra-rich, but an elementary understanding of percentages shows that this isn't true. 15% of a 50,000 income is a $7500 tax, while the guy making $5M would be taxed $750,000. This would make much more sense and cause the gov't to cut useless spending.
A fairer, and more practical system would be a 15% flat tax, capped at a certain point. Liberals like to misrepresent this as making the middle class pay the same amount as the ultra-rich, but an elementary understanding of percentages shows that this isn't true. 15% of a 50,000 income is a $7500 tax, while the guy making $5M would be taxed $750,000. This would make much more sense and cause the gov't to cut useless spending.
Ugh.....conservatives have no grasp of marginal utility.
Very simply put, the $7500 puts the guy making 50k into much more financial hardship then the guy making $5m with $750,000. This is the whole purpose of a progressive income tax.
The only thing a flat tax would do would significantly increase the taxes paid by those who can already barely afford to survive, and give a tax break to people who have more money then they know what to do with.
Ugh.....conservatives have no grasp of marginal utility.
Very simply put, the $7500 puts the guy making 50k into much more financial hardship then the guy making $5m with $750,000. This is the whole purpose of a progressive income tax.
The only thing a flat tax would do would significantly increase the taxes paid by those who can already barely afford to survive, and give a tax break to people who have more money then they know what to do with.
Exactly!!! MARGINAL UTILITY THEORY. For the flat tax camp, look it up....
I understand the concept of "marginal utility". However, I don't see why it should have anything to do with tax policy.
The government's purpose is to create equal opportunities for people, not equal outcomes. Socialists, Progressives, have an obsession with taking over the free-market and create policies to redistribute wealth. If one's outcome is artificially changed because a bureaucrat thinks that their income gives them more "marginal utility" than somebody else, things start to collapse slowly. Incentive is reduced, private industry profit is reduced, jobs are lost, and even your tax revenue for your precious government programs will eventually go down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomdude
Ugh.....conservatives have no grasp of marginal utility.
Very simply put, the $7500 puts the guy making 50k into much more financial hardship then the guy making $5m with $750,000. This is the whole purpose of a progressive income tax.
The only thing a flat tax would do would significantly increase the taxes paid by those who can already barely afford to survive, and give a tax break to people who have more money then they know what to do with.
I think you've been watching too much Glenn Beck. First off, income tax rates are among the lowest of the century. A flat tax is ridiculous, poor people would be paying a larger percentage of their income than rich people then. I also love that saying that goes something like the richest 5% pay 50% of our nations taxes. They also make 50% of our nations wealth. Keep in mind the extreme wealthy like those mentioned in the atricle have amont the lowest effective tax rates compared to the semi-wealthy (say 2 or 3 hundread thousand a year).
Your right taxing the rich more isn't fair, it's more than fair.
I guess you would never want to be rich?
While federal tax rates are "low", what about local, state, property, sales, etc. taxes? Many people such as myself pay more in property tax than you earn in a year.
And as far as sales tax, all of you who collect checks from the government can thank rich people for their tax dollars.
And you folks who work in small stores can thank a rich person for hiring the people who spend money in your store.
And you car salesmen, thank the next rich person you meet. They probably buy 10 cars or trucks a year for their business and personal use.
Look, I don't have all the answers, but punishing someone for being successful through taxation just doesn't make any sense.
While federal tax rates are "low", what about local, state, property, sales, etc. taxes? Many people such as myself pay more in property tax than you earn in a year.
I would have no problem paying huge taxes if I were wealthy. A man only needs so much. After 100k a year net income, I would probably give away most of anything else to people who actually needed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
And as far as sales tax, all of you who collect checks from the government can thank rich people for their tax dollars.
Actually sales tax is regressive and largely shouldered by poor people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
And you folks who work in small stores can thank a rich person for hiring the people who spend money in your store.
Rich people dont create jobs, demand for product does. Rich people simply own all the means to deliver the product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
And you car salesmen, thank the next rich person you meet. They probably buy 10 cars or trucks a year for their business and personal use.
1. Fleet sales are usually handled as a completely separate division in a car dealership.
2. Fleet sales are a fraction of total volume moved by your average car dealership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphamale
Look, I don't have all the answers, but punishing someone for being successful through taxation just doesn't make any sense.
You dont have any answer. Thats the thing. Conservatives have two reactions.
1. Raise taxes on the lower classes and lower taxes on the higher classes to make it "fair".
Then if you realize that isnt really fair, since it is raising taxes on people who can already ill afford lifes neccessities
2. Throw up arms and claim to not know whats right, but to know what is wrong. Its so easy to claim that X isnt fair without suggesting any solution. Its what being a conservative is all about.
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