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Where do you get off calling me a "special snowflake parent". When have I ever said they system needs to cater to me? When have I ever said I'm so special someone else needs to give me something special? That I'm so unique, I can't possibly be expected to fit the system. I haven't. In fact, I've said the opposite if you actually take the time to read my posts.
Yes, I think most parents don't get it. Just look around you. We have a generation of kids ill equipped for even college because of self esteem building, hover parents. About two months ago, I read an article in a parenting magazine on just this.
You have no right calling me names. It's out of line.
I graduated from college the first time in 87. I went back to college this past decade. What struck me was moving in day for on campus students. I saw whole families helping the kids move into their dorms, having trucks full of stuff delivered to the dorms/apartments, and mom and dad helping their kids get settled.
Quite frankly I was amazed, first that the attitude was that these weren't young adults but a bunch of junior high kids going off to camp. The second was the amazing amount of crap which somehow is now necessary for a young adult to survive. The funny thing is that at the end of the academic year, piles of stuff, including mattresses, computers, books etc are simply dumped and thrown away.
Now I don't want to get into the bull**** of "when I was a kid," but when my generation went away to college, WE went away, not mom/dad/grandparents/favorite aunt. The responsibility to get to school and set up house was ours, we usually had castoffs that family didnt want/need, or we made do with what we could pay for. What I witnessed was the physical reality that somehow these kids are entitled to this massive amount of waste and frivolity. This is a growing phenomena as unis market themselves in ways that almost downplay the academics and feature the party/spa like setting of their campuses. And many parents fall for that crap because it makes the whole college thing more about fun rather than hard demanding work and responsibility. If students and their families had to actually save the money to go to college, rather than take out loans and postpone the reality of what college actually is, then maybe we would have a far more mature and clear idea of what we pay for and what we get re: college education. I actually agree with much of what you're saying, many college students have no idea of the situation that they're getting into because they have never had to pay for their education and its been made far too easy to get to college.
I saw whole families helping the kids move into their dorms, having trucks full of stuff delivered to the dorms/apartments, and mom and dad helping their kids get settled.
The (malformed) lioness instinct which creates the Helicopter Mom will then get transformed into the C130 Mom.
Then they'll the become NSA Mom as they monitor the darling via everything from Facebook to the Bank accounts they'll be transferring deposits into regularly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday
Let's stick with the OP ^
Being one of the first commenter's in this thread I'd have preferred if the original points were stuck with but, well...
I know I'm fairly new here but does anyone really believe that any forum thread anywhere...
is gonna still be on topic after 20 or so posts? Let alone the *original* topic?
Last edited by MrRational; 05-07-2011 at 01:05 PM..
The (malformed) lioness instinct which creates the Helicopter Mom will then get transformed into the C130 Mom.
Then they'll the become NSA Mom as they monitor the darling via everything from Facebook to the Bank accounts they'll be transferring deposits into regularly.
Being one of the first commenter's in this thread I'd have preferred if the original points were stuck with but, well...
I know I'm fairly new here but does anyone really believe that any forum thread anywhere...
is gonna still be on topic after 20 or so posts? Let alone the *original* topic?
It is possible! The topic regarding animosity between parents, school and the community is quite different then parents moving their kids into college. This is NOT a chat board where anything goes. Anyone is free to start a new topic, like helicopter parents, if they would like to talk about that.
Parents want control. They want schools to cater to their special little snowflake. The problem is the entire school is full of special little snowflakes. The idea that kids should take responsibility and be the ones to adapt is unacceptable. It is, clearly, the teacher's responsibility to make a student learn. After all, there's nothing to individualizing the educations of 30+ kids in one classroom.
I don't agree with your disdain about special snowflakes. However, here's what I do agree with:
1. Student need to be grouped in core classes by ABILITY, not age.
2. Students who fail core classes need to be retained and remediated, not passed on.
3. Students who exceed the requirements for those core classes need to be advanced, not held back.
I also agree with the idea that teachers cannot make a student learn. It is the teacher's responsibility to teach -- that is, to present the material logically and clearly, to test what has been taught, to provide accurate and consistent feedback -- and the student's responsibility to learn.
Quote:
Parenting has become a competitive sport. The proof you're a good parents is seen in grades and how advanced your child is. Parents are threatened by anyone who doesn't acknowledge that their child is superior or otherwise special. If the child is not advanced, there must be an explanation or someone to blame. Hence the 4 fold increase in diagnoses of ADD/ADHD and autism. They cannot accept that our kids are who they are and that parents are not perfect.
I would agree with the "grades" part. I would like to underscore something even more: I see even greater emphasis on the grade than on the actual mastery of the material. Many times, I have had parents insist to me that their child was "an A student." Turns out they often are...that is, on their report cards. When you look at objective measures, however -- PSAT tests, SATs, ACTs, APs, or other assessments -- it's often the case in my experience that the kid is really quite average (or below).
So, why the As when the actual measures of ability suggest otherwise? Two words: Parental pressure.
I don't agree with your disdain about special snowflakes. However, here's what I do agree with:
1. Student need to be grouped in core classes by ABILITY, not age.
2. Students who fail core classes need to be retained and remediated, not passed on.
3. Students who exceed the requirements for those core classes need to be advanced, not held back.
I also agree with the idea that teachers cannot make a student learn. It is the teacher's responsibility to teach -- that is, to present the material logically and clearly, to test what has been taught, to provide accurate and consistent feedback -- and the student's responsibility to learn.
I would agree with the "grades" part. I would like to underscore something even more: I see even greater emphasis on the grade than on the actual mastery of the material. Many times, I have had parents insist to me that their child was "an A student." Turns out they often are...that is, on their report cards. When you look at objective measures, however -- PSAT tests, SATs, ACTs, APs, or other assessments -- it's often the case in my experience that the kid is really quite average (or below).
So, why the As when the actual measures of ability suggest otherwise? Two words: Parental pressure.
Sorry but I disagree with your perception that parents don't perceive their children as special and in some ways far more entitled than other children. In my SD, as with many others, we are facing school closures. Rather than fighting to make sure that funding is provided for all schools at proper levels, what we've seen is the opposite, the attempt to maintain certain schools at the expense of others.
We have language immersion schools, as well as others which are considered elite public schools. The parents of those children have made no attempt to close down those schools which drain resources from the other general public schools, rather they have demanded that those schools remain open even if it means that their neighborhood public schools shut down. Keep in mind that most of the immersion schools enroll by lottery and don't need to have only students from the district. The parents of the elite school students have only one thing in mind, keep my kid's school open, even if my neighbor's kid's school close. That's about as clear an example of some parent's belief that their children are more entitled than other children.
Now maybe you don't like the term snowflakes, but that's just marketing. After witnessing what I've seen regarding school closures and how few parents are making the attempt to upgrade education for ALL children rather than their own, it's apparent that Ivorytickler is closer to the truth than most posters....
Now maybe you don't like the term snowflakes, but that's just marketing. After witnessing what I've seen regarding school closures and how few parents are making the attempt to upgrade education for ALL children rather than their own, it's apparent that Ivorytickler is closer to the truth than most posters....
No, it's not marketing. "Snowflakes" is pejorative, dismissive, and just completely bad form-- whether it's applied to Ivory or whether Ivory is, as she has in past, applying it to others.
No, it's not marketing. "Snowflakes" is pejorative, dismissive, and just completely bad form-- whether it's applied to Ivory or whether Ivory is, as she has in past, applying it to others.
Nope, it's marketing. Seems many folks have no issues taking children out of districts because other children don't meet certain private standards. I've heard the "rationale" that is given for why some schools need to stay open for certain kids and why others should be closed, so don't try to con me into thinking that's it anything else. Many parents seem not to have any problem fighting ONLY for their kid's ability to get special treatment, and could care less what happens to the rest of the other student's education, because my kid is special and yours isn't. THEY are claiming that their kids are "snowflakes" because they are special, so much so that SD's should make an allowance for their kids. In this SD, we have had school closures and some of us have fought to maintain a high level of education for ALL students. But we can't muster enough parental involvement in that fight, most don't care if it doesn't involve THEIR kid. Of course its the idea of entitlement/snowflake. So if you're bothered by the word but not by the actions, then you need to do some major rethinking.
Nope, it's marketing. Seems many folks have no issues taking children out of districts because other children don't meet certain private standards. I've heard the "rationale" that is given for why some schools need to stay open for certain kids and why others should be closed, so don't try to con me into thinking that's it anything else. Many parents seem not to have any problem fighting ONLY for their kid's ability to get special treatment, and could care less what happens to the rest of the other student's education, because my kid is special and yours isn't. THEY are claiming that their kids are "snowflakes" because they are special, so much so that SD's should make an allowance for their kids. In this SD, we have had school closures and some of us have fought to maintain a high level of education for ALL students. But we can't muster enough parental involvement in that fight, most don't care if it doesn't involve THEIR kid. Of course its the idea of entitlement/snowflake. So if you're bothered by the word but not by the actions, then you need to do some major rethinking.
Parents advocate for their own child-- yes, sometimes, to the exclusion of others-- not because of a sense of "specialness", but because that child is theirs. That's part of parenting. It's my job to do the best I can for my son or daughter. It is not, however, my job to do so for little Johnny in the next classroom. Just because teachers are expected to be objective does not mean parents should be expected to. The stakes are completely different.
And yes, I'm bothered by belittling, insulting terms. That you're not is...well, frankly, pretty creepy.
It is not my job to do so for little Johnny in the next classroom.
Just because teachers are expected to be objective does not mean parents should be expected to.
That really doesn't need any more belittling or insulting...
than just holding up this mirror to it.
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The topic regarding animosity between parents, school and the community is quite different then parents moving their kids into college. This is NOT a chat board where anything goes. Anyone is free to start a new topic, like helicopter parents, if they would like to talk about that.
