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They don't with the AP classes but the post-secondary classes they have taken do count, in most cases since they are classes from a 4 year university--that is where they get the credits. Add that to the higher placement in classes and they can get through school a little faster or get a couple majors in 4 years like most of them are doing. 15 Ap credits is a full semester, add in several college level classes, not AP, and there is your year or two of credits.
Golfgal,
This is the statement from the Cornell website I listed above:
Please keep in mind that you are allowed 15 credits from AP/pre‐college and In Absentia combined. In Absentia credit comes from credit taken at another institution after you’ve matriculated to Cornell.
Maybe a perspective from an old guy who dealt with this himself and took four daughters (one of which was a stray) through the process.
I started out at a first class Catholic Boys high school in the midwest. I was one of their five academic scholarships. I ran into puberty...got expelled...and ended up with my final year of high school on Long Island. Where I got a Regent's diploma in one year. Note that is virtually impossible theoretically but practically if the school will let you take two course at the same time you can do it. A Regents course is a pretty good analog of an AP course...it least in NY state.
The four ladies I directed through the process were over a wide range. One was really smart and good academically. One was a really good student, though not terribly bright. One was a BS arrest of considerable skill. And one was a very nice gal of strong personality and about average intelligence.
We looked at the AP classes as opportunities. We also considered the test taking aptitude...Some are good at tests and others never will be. So some you push to the rewards of testing well and others you protect from the damage of tests.
In general the two students took every AP class they came across that was rational. The really smart Lady now has a Phd in Psycholgy. The student got her BA. The other two took only those they were sure they could nail. The BS artist was good at this. Had a whole mess of AP credits. And they had to take the AP test. None of hers however were in difficult areas...she did not do hard stuff.
The final lady ducked AP and worked hard at being a social success and did very well.
So our formula...if you can go for it. If you are not comfortable stay out of harms way.
One other thought. I have an engineering degree from a pretty tough undergraduate institution. If you have a technical kid...run him or her through the wringer. Even make them take hard stuff they don't like. When you get into the tech schools the knifes come out. These people tend to be both competent and competitive. Understand that people with 150 IQs and 4.0 averages will still cheat on a test. The better your kid understands will deal heavily with their survivability in that sort of environment.
They also know what is taught at the CC's and how the classes compare. My own transfer was seamless.
Do you not get that there is money on the line for the 4 year universities? It's to their advantage to steer you the direction that gets them the most $$. It's more likely a CC course will transfer for credit. AP courses they can waive for credit and still collect the same amount of money. When there's money involved, don't believe everything you're told.
With the high percentage of students you have taking AP classes, I doubt they're more rigorous than CC classes. They're, likely, akin to taking the actual high school course 50 years ago.
Mine was, too. But I went to a state university, which have agreements with CC. Elite universities do not usually take CC credit. It all depends what path you want to take, but for the top percentage of the students, who are competing for select spots, AP over CC any day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Again, more proof that college has been dummied down to the high school level.
When I was in high school, it was unheard of for someone to have college credits before graduating from high school but high school was actually high school back then....Now it appears it's middle school...
As a teacher, I do believe that we've dummied down high school and college. I don't get to topics that I learned in high school.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I prefer my children learn to function in a community and learn how to figure out how to learn on their own, as opposed to having someone, conveniently, compact the curriculum for them. THEY are not the only beings in this world that count.
Children aren't capped in public school either. Have you read my posts about our, current, issues with our dd because she was allowed to move ahead??? Just because a child can read on a 10th grade level doesn't mean they're ready to learn chemistry (a 10th grade class). My dd has hit a wall. She's almost two years ahead of her peers but can't go any further because she's not ready. We avoided her being bored years ago by having her work ahead only to have her bored now while she waits to develop the skills she needs to move on. Now we're faced with a child who could graduate at 16 but who will not be mature enough for college.
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I'm confused... Is highschool chemistry too hard, or hasn't it been dumbed down? And we are not even talking about AP Chemistry, just highschool chemistry. So she's hit a wall in highschool, which is now middle school according to you, yet she's ready for college, because it has been watered down.
Children have different intelligence levels, even among gifted, there are various degrees. They don't all reach a level at a certain time, there are those that are ready for AP calculus as a freshman, and there are those that won't even get through Algebra II. There has been a push in the last several decades to make college material available to highschoolers, it doesn't mean they are all ready for it, and it doesn't mean that its been watered down because they can do it.
And by the way... if she's taking college courses at 14, someone has conveniently compacted the curriculum for her.
The point, however, has been made. Supposedly, "college level" courses are typical for most of your college bound freshmen so they really aren't college level courses, are they? What makes a college level course a college level course is that they are taken by college level students not 9th graders . A class that is, typically, taken by 9th graders is a 9th grade course. While I do believe there are a few students capable of college level work in high school, when you start claiming this is the norm, you're not talking college level work at all. You're not even asking your students to take the exam (but you still want to throw around exam scores is if that means something when the exam was optional ). If they're so good, why not ask them to prove themselves and take the exam???? What are you afraid of?
Interestingly, the fact in my son's high school was that the younger kids always understood more of the classes than older students.
For example, geometry honors could be take for high school credit in 6th, 7th or 8th grade (placement by tests and by teacher recommendations). It was always the 6th graders who set the curve on the final exam. Often the gifted students are simply way ahead of their peers.
In my son's school, lots of kids took APs and the year they took them varied from Freshman to Senior year. Most took them in junior or senior year, but there were certainly kids who were ready earlier. Like the person who posted about University of Minnesota, our kids took real college classes at Northwestern. Most of the APs were taught on the high school campus by teachers who were excellent and no courses were dumbed down. Kids who did the APs before they were ready to graduate took college courses for dual credit at the local community college or at Northwestern.
Interesting! Thanks for the info- I wonder what the test passing percentage is?
I had once seen it categorized by grade and score, each exam, but now I couldn't find it. But I do remember that the lower grades actually did quite well. It is quite intresting to see, which exams are usually taken at what grade.
One thing to keep in mind when looking at the other exams, however, is that there are a very large number of students that will take AP classes as seniors, but not AP exams, as it will be too late to send in the scores to colleges, and they know they won't get credit. So those numbers are a bit off on how many actually take the classes. But I don't think that applies to AP Human, as very few, if any, top students will be taking that as a senior.
Interestingly, the fact in my son's high school was that the younger kids always understood more of the classes than older students.
For example, geometry honors could be take for high school credit in 6th, 7th or 8th grade (placement by tests and by teacher recommendations). It was always the 6th graders who set the curve on the final exam. Often the gifted students are simply way ahead of their peers.
In my son's school, lots of kids took APs and the year they took them varied from Freshman to Senior year. Most took them in junior or senior year, but there were certainly kids who were ready earlier. Like the person who posted about University of Minnesota, our kids took real college classes at Northwestern. Most of the APs were taught on the high school campus by teachers who were excellent and no courses were dumbed down. Kids who did the APs before they were ready to graduate took college courses for dual credit at the local community college or at Northwestern.
I'm thinking that today's AP classes are more like the college prep classes of days gone by and not college level (at least not by yesterday's standards) at all. Difficult for high school students, yes, but not what college used to be.
When I took chemistry in high school we finished the material and spent the last few weeks starting organic chemistry and that was with doing the week long ion separation and identification lab that is now an AP lab. Today, I'm lucky if I get through solutions and reaction rates and the only discussion I do of organic chemistry is what I can fit in when teaching other subjects. I'm certain I learned a lot more chemistry, in high school, than I teach. Now the state has "Power Standards" which are the ones they recommend we hit because they recognize we can't hit them all now that every student takes chemistry (the pacing had to slow to get all students through the course) and the content is being further reduced.
Fortunately, my district is in the process of vertically aligning all subjects. When the alignment is in place, classes below mine will own parts of my CCE's (there are two classes below mine that have no state CCE's but teach some of the same material that I do. We're reducing the redundancy in order to teach to higher levels.). Since I won't have to teach those (theoretically, just do a light review) I should have time to teach the subjects I don't get to. We're in the process of raising the bar back to where it was when I was in school. About two months worth of my material will be owned by classes below mine which will free me up to teach the last two units I don't get to and, hopefully, some organic chemistry too.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-03-2011 at 09:04 PM..
Interesting! Thanks for the info- I wonder what the test passing percentage is?
here is the link I found. Unfortunately, it breaks up the scores for 11th and 12th graders, but not for 9th and 10th, like the one I had first seen, which was a colorful, multipage graph document. This one is in excel, but gives lots of info.
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Now we're faced with a child who could graduate at 16 but who will not be mature enough for college.
