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Old 05-27-2012, 07:05 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,321,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Aren't you the one who accused me one time of a "personal attack" on Ronald Reagan? Yet you come up with this snark.

I don't need to cut and paste this:

The federal portion of K-12 education is 10% of the monies spent, and that includes the school lunch program. In some districts it is much less. For all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth about the federal govt, its role in education is minimal!
Ronald Reagan deserves to be attacked, he was just as much of a big government politician as any liberal.

Government spending and control is all over education, and it shouldn't be.

Federal spending in for grades K-12 have increased from 12.5 billion in 1965 to 72.8 billion in 2008. (Source: Cato Institute). Along with that money come a myriad of regulations which LOCAL schools have to follow. K-12 Education Subsidies | Downsizing the Federal Government
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:23 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,921,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
NCLB is a national program, as is "Race to the Top". The whole Dept. of Education should be dismantled.
None of those are actually fully funded. They are mandates, but the feds don't pay for them.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
NCLB is a national program, as is "Race to the Top". The whole Dept. of Education should be dismantled.
There has been a department of education in some form since 1867. Many of our forefathers found it useful to have such an agency. The DOE has been cabinet level since the Eisenhower adminsitration, in the old Dept. of Health, Education and Welfare, and it has been a stand-alone cabinet dept since 1979.

Federal Role in Education

United States Department of Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:07 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,321,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There has been a department of education in some form since 1867. Many of our forefathers found it useful to have such an agency. The DOE has been cabinet level since the Eisenhower adminsitration, in the old Dept. of Health, Education and Welfare, and it has been a stand-alone cabinet dept since 1979.

Federal Role in Education

United States Department of Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So? Just because it's been around since 1979 doesn't mean it should still continue. We have no need for it.
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
So? Just because it's been around since 1979 doesn't mean it should still continue. We have no need for it.
Tell us why.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:43 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,321,103 times
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Tell us why.
Ummm. Because there is no need for it. We should be asking why we need it, not why we don't. Education is a family concern. The feds should have no part in it. The state of education in the US has not improved since 1979, the creation of the DOE, in fact it's gotten worse.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Ummm. Because there is no need for it. We should be asking why we need it, not why we don't. Education is a family concern. The feds should have no part in it. The state of education in the US has not improved since 1979, the creation of the DOE, in fact it's gotten worse.
And you accused me, in a sarcastic way, of being "very articulate". Tell us WHY there is no need for a DOE. Prove that the "state of education in the US" has become worse since 1979.
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Old 05-27-2012, 10:15 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,321,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
And you accused me, in a sarcastic way, of being "very articulate". Tell us WHY there is no need for a DOE. Prove that the "state of education in the US" has become worse since 1979.
First of all, there is no provision under the US Constitution for the Federal government to collect taxes for and fund education. Education, under the constitution, is purely a state responsibility.

Test scores have not risen under the DOE. What we do have is a maze of regulations and mandates that have resulted in reams of unnecesary paperwork for school districts. Paperwork that requires increasing numbers of administrators to decipher, taking dollars away from students in the classroom.

Why not return the $50 billion (2011) budget to taxpayers and local school districts?

I invite you to peruse the following http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb108/hb108-28.pdf for details on the correlation between reading scores and federal expenditures from 1980-1999. Hint: it's not good.

The bottom line is that for all the money we are spending on the DOE, we should have improving test scores and better educated children. We don't.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Paris, France
301 posts, read 804,524 times
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One thing people seem to forget is that "public" money is actually OUR money. The government is supposed to be controlled by the citizens of this country, not the other way around. I don't believe that the federal, state, or local government has any business telling me "Thou shalt attend School A. If you don't, then you can go to prison for not educating your children or spend a fortune paying for homeschooling expenses or private school."

But that's what happens. Even if you don't believe that "public" money should be spent on private schools, then you should at least believe that all students should be allowed to have the best education possible. Students should have school choice. They should not be forced to attend a school that is low-performing or a school where they do not feel safe. There are nine high schools in my county, but I was only allowed to go to one of them. It was a low-performing school and didn't have exactly the safest environment. There were eight other high schools. Several would have been better academically performing high schools and all eight would have been safer, but I either had to pay to attend those schools, lie and say I lived in those school zones, or choose a non-public education. That isn't right. Every child should be afforded equal opportunities or at the very least, another free public option. I didn't even have that.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:06 PM
 
4,385 posts, read 4,238,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oogax3Girl View Post
One thing people seem to forget is that "public" money is actually OUR money. The government is supposed to be controlled by the citizens of this country, not the other way around. I don't believe that the federal, state, or local government has any business telling me "Thou shalt attend School A. If you don't, then you can go to prison for not educating your children or spend a fortune paying for homeschooling expenses or private school."

But that's what happens. Even if you don't believe that "public" money should be spent on private schools, then you should at least believe that all students should be allowed to have the best education possible. Students should have school choice. They should not be forced to attend a school that is low-performing or a school where they do not feel safe. There are nine high schools in my county, but I was only allowed to go to one of them. It was a low-performing school and didn't have exactly the safest environment. There were eight other high schools. Several would have been better academically performing high schools and all eight would have been safer, but I either had to pay to attend those schools, lie and say I lived in those school zones, or choose a non-public education. That isn't right. Every child should be afforded equal opportunities or at the very least, another free public option. I didn't even have that.

There should not be any low-performing schools. All schools should teach students to the same high standards, beginning in pre-school. However, many Americans see pre-school as free daycare, not realizing that the achievement gap that begins in the home needs to be targeted as soon after birth as possible. So the gap widens with each passing year. The result is that students arrive at your high school unprepared to do grade-level work.

Your education is suffering because your classmates drag down the level of instruction. All I can tell you is what I say to my own students--If you rely on school to educate you, you will end up badly educated at best. The best educated people have always been self-educated people. The remarkable thing this year is that so many of them believed me and have begun acting upon it.

Read your textbooks before summer vacation, if you haven't done so this year, and school is still in session where you are. If not, then hit the library, preferably a college library, and begin your career of self-study. I highly recommend reading the diary-turned-book written by a high school junior whose parents let her quit school and teach herself. It's called The Day I Became an Autodidact, by Kendall Hailey. It was quite inspiring, and I would lend it to students who were interested. The last time, I didn't get it back, so no one else got to see it. But it's very entertaining, especially if you're the age she was when she wrote it. Good luck!

Last edited by lhpartridge; 05-29-2012 at 04:09 PM.. Reason: A DUH moment. I just realized that the poster is no longer in HS. Advice stands to anyone in a bad school.
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