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What would you say the schools that are working well are doing? Do you have any examples of schools that are working well so that we can examine it?
High tech high school in lincroft nj
Biotech high school freehold nj
Several others.
Both managed by the local vo-tech which also offers some of the best vo-tech programs in the state.
We take either end of the bell curve which means we track, heavily.
When all students are tracked very closely you have no down time to catch some kids up. All the work can be challenging to that specific level without leaving anyone behind.
Vo-tech and high tech schools are working well because the kids are going to be more motivated. They chose the type of school because they have some type of career aspiration in mind. If, in one area, there were schools that, in addition to the core subjects, focused on art, on health sciences, on music, etc, then the kids going to those schools are going to get a lot more out of them than they would their typical public high school.
Also, close tracking is important; the naturally high achievers are bored silly in a typical school, while the kids with less ability are often left floundering. The ones in the middle might or might not be suitably challenged. They're likely to fall through the cracks, though; they're not in the top 10% and they're not doing miserably, so they might just find it easier to do the bare minimum, coast through with Cs and bide their time until they can get out of school.
I'd love to see more specialty high schools opening up! In my school district, there are just two public high schools. There are private high schools in a neighboring country, and a few charter schools as well, but only one charter school is within easy driving distance. I bet my daughter (who is only 10 now) would love a vo-ag school or maybe one that focused on the arts. My son might enjoy a school that focused on high-tech subjects. As of now, we're not willing to put them in a general public school, so homeschooling it is.
High tech high school in lincroft nj
Biotech high school freehold nj
Several others.
Both managed by the local vo-tech which also offers some of the best vo-tech programs in the state.
We take either end of the bell curve which means we track, heavily.
When all students are tracked very closely you have no down time to catch some kids up. All the work can be challenging to that specific level without leaving anyone behind.
What I found regarding Lincroft:
Quote:
Since its founding in 1991, the application and admission process has become increasingly competitive. Seventy-five students are selected each year from a pool of over three hundred outstanding applicants.
And Freehold:
Quote:
Biotechnology High School, an International Baccalaureate World School, integrates life sciences into a rigorous curriculum that inspires students toward open-minded participation in the global community and prepares students for higher education and leadership in an increasingly demanding workplace, through scholarly research, original investigations, and interactive partnerships.
These schools look like competitive magnet or charter schools that exclude students at the lower end of the achievement bell curve. And I could not find anything on their demographics although one did say they had a commitment to diversity. I would like to know their FRL, IEP, and LEP percentages.
Are either one of these schools where you work? How do they handle students that are constantly disruptive? Are they allowed to stay? What are the class sizes? What is the per pupil funding? I could not find any classes that had the tracking that you referred to; at least, in mathematics.
Although these schools sound very nice, they do not appear to be regular public schools. Am I wrong?
I believe that it's finally time for me to unleash the wide array of gripes I have about the educational system. Now that I have finally earned my stripes and am graduating in the next month or so; the time has finally come for me to bury the hatchet for good. I know I am not necessarily a doctor in education, although I do have some valid things to say about this topic.
First of all, school had a paradoxical effect on motivating me from a very young age. Before I entered the structured world of the educational system, I was much more intellectually curious and willing to exercise my interests on my own. The minute I was forced to succumb to the generic, cookie cutter form of education, I became very disengaged and apathetic. For example, when I was very little (4-6), I was very interested in reading anything I could about space. The planets, stars, comets, etc, all fascinated me. When I entered kindergarden and was forced to read the same monotonous material as everyone else, I immediately dissociated myself from it because it took away from my interest in space. This is just one example of many that I've experienced that justify my pessimistic perception of the education system.
Anyway this thought pattern of mine continued throughout elementary school. Rather than using school as a tool to expand my intellectual horizons, I subconsciously began to label it as a suppressant that prevented me from exploring extracurricular interests.
This is an appropriate time to present a valid counter argument. I do believe that a basic ground level of education needs to be reached (i.e basic math/literacy skills, although I was already reading on my own), however, once this ground level is reached I think it's appropriate for children to be able to deviate away from the generic system.
Anyway, the concept of the suppressing force began to increase as I aged. Obviously you are not going to do elementary level work forever and will therefore enter a new realm of strenuous monotony. This concept became particularly apparent as I made my way through eighth grade. "Mom, how are geometric functions at all pertinent to my career?" I remember moaning. The workload I began to experience was not necessarily more intellectually stimulating, just more immersed in monotony, like I said.
I think it's important to point out that once I entered high school, EVERY interest I took up, even my eventual career choice (journalism) was not brought on at all by the high school structure. Everything I took up was an individualistic pursuit of my own. I did not care to play the GPA/SAT, extracirriculars game, which I deemed as superficial. I did the bare minimum throughout high school and only got by on intelligence. I am still attending journalism school in Seattle, which I believe is due to the admissions people being more open minded and less bureautical about the process.
Anyway, the point I am trying to make is that high school is not for everyone. Some people may be able to become engaged in it, which is fine. However we cannot continue to throw everyone in the generic, cookie cutter pool of education. Is time to be more innovative and open minded about this topic. Clearly it has not worked out too well, just look at the success of reality TV! But seriously, lets think outside the box here.
Thanks for reading.
schools function to meet the needs of the consumer like any business. the problem though without knowing where you went to school is high schools in some parts of the country have an educational monopoly over the community. take for instance myself. i grew up in a town that one high school. you live in the town, you go to the high school. pretty cut and dry. the school will offer a curriculum based on a.) demand b.) financial resources and c.) human resources. i know the only reason i was able to take ap euro history my senior year was i agreed to do it on an independent basis and receive no grade for it. i along with another girl were the only 2 students enrolled in the course.
i now teach in a district that has 14 traditional public high schools, 4 public charters and several private schools to boot. obviously a very competitive market to attract students / $$$$$ from the state. schools in my county now have to find innovative curriculum's / design programs of study that peek different student's interests, etc........
i have a young lady in my US History class who the district allows to attend the fine arts magnet on the other side of town in the mornings and then commute to her neighborhood school (my school) for her basics. she is enrolled in the creative writing program at the fine arts magnet school. A program which allows her to focus on her real interests.
so its not that high school is worthless its that YOUR high school experience may not have been what it could have been, should have been, or you wanted it to be.
Slogging through this thread is worse than going to high school.
The long and short of it? The OP is justifying their lack of education by blaming the school system instead their own lazy ass.
You know, that was just mean. The OP did manage to finish high school, which is more than I can say for myself since I managed to drop out in 10th grade, before I turned 16 btw. I was a mess I'll admit--feeling failed by school, classmates, and parents and having counted up the time till I could drop out since kindergarten after the teacher broke my finger, I couldn't take it any more.
Now that I've been through college and work in a high school in a job that I love, I can see more point to getting the HS education that I turned up my nose at so many years ago. Take geometry: I believe the OP decided there was no point to it, but now with my life experience behind me I think that is one class I wish I hadn't missed. I was never able to pick it up in college remedial math for one thing, and then there are so many useful concepts like finding the areas of rooms so you can order flooring and squaring up corners and finding proportions. I mean, I figured it all out eventually but was slowed down by the lack. I am often appalled by the lack of willingness of the students to think about anything though. I'll try to talk them through concepts but at times it can be downright comical but I'll stop here for now and go to bed.
The problem with our educational system is that we do not hold students accountable for learning. When they fail to learn, it's everyone's fault EXCEPT theirs. That means the system has to be set up to force them to learn. Because grades are assigned, parents demand fairness. I cannot tell Johnny he has to do 30 problems but tell Suzy she only has to do 6 because I know Johnny needs the practice and Suzy doesn't. I have to make them both do 30 problems.
I had a Sweedish foriegn exchange student a few years back who told me that she was drowning under the homework load. She said that homework is a suggestion where she came from and kids knew to do what they needed to do to learn the material. If they failed to do so, it was on them. Here, the teacher would be blamed for not, adequately, teaching the material.
I hate assigning homework. I should be able to give a set of problems, post the answers on line, and then address any questions in class. Instead, I must grade homework to insure that every student did it. This annoys me. Not every student needs to do it BUT the ones who need to do it the most are the ones who won't do it and often still don't even with a grade assigned. However, I've covered my butt by checking and assigning a grade.
I had one student, a few years back, who never did homework but passed my tests. I ended up making a deal with him that I'd excuse all of his homework if he got A's on my tests. I had to make a deal that I wouldn't have a problem extending to everyone because once you give one student something, you have to give them all that something.
To the OP: #1) You are too young to know what will or will not benefit you. Come back in a few years. #2) Ultimately, YOU are responsible for your own education. The system does not owe it to you to teach the things you want taught (the system teaches things that those older and wiser than you have deemed valuable). It's not all about YOU. It's up to YOU to persue personal interests outside of the classroom not the school to cater to YOU. The system is what the system is because it works for the masses. Without, significantly, smaller class sizes and more prep time, teachers cannot even begin to tailor educations to particular students. We do what works for most. We know our best and brightest will soar with or without us and, sadly, don't have much time to spend on them (though they tend to demand what they need which is good).
FTR, I am a chemical engineer turned teacher. It is not subject matter expertise we need in the classroom. It is not common standards. We need two things. We need to hold students accountable for learning (that is their job) and to give teachers the time to do their jobs right (reduce class sizes so I can cater to kids and give me prep time to get the job done. Seriously, 50 minutes a day to prep for 4 different classes where I teach 140 individual kids doesn't cut it.). I have one class where I have only 15 students and in that class I spend most of the period answering student questions. It's a really cool class. In that class, my students are learning to think and apply the material. I can't do that in my bigger classes without, significantly, slowing down the pace. There are too many individual questions. There comes a point where I have to tell kids to come after school but they don't. If you want me to teach the same material I teach to 15 kids in 50 minutes and take time for individual questions, you need to give me more like 75 minutes. My small class finishes labs with time to spare because I have time to go around to 7 lab groups and make sure individual questions are anwered. My class of 28 will have 4-5 groups not finish labs in a given day because it takes too long for me to make the rounds with 14 lab groups. I wish people would get that part of the problem here is teachers just don't have the time to do the job right so we do what we can and hope for the best.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 03-23-2013 at 04:50 AM..
Reason: typos
Ivory, why does one of your classes only have 15 kids?
It seems like for the kids in the rest of your classes, your course really isn't too useful. You said yourself that a good portion of the kids won't finish the labs, won't get their questions answered, are being assigned busywork homework because some of the kids need the practice, and don't get enough of the teacher's time.
Those statements lead me to believe that the original premise, high school is useless, is not being negated in your classes. It's not your fault, but that doesn't make the course any more useful for the 8-10 kids who, in any given day, aren't finishing labs and aren't getting their questions answered. They might glean something from the copious amounts of homework, but in general, their time spent there is going to be largely wasted.
Wouldn't it be better to offer chemistry to the kids who are INTERESTED in chemistry? That right there would reduce your class size probably by half. The other kids could take science classes that they were interested in, whether it be biology, human anatomy, animal health, or an independent study in astronomy.
I know that you're not in charge and you don't make the rules, so I'm not asking you personally why this isn't the case. But it seems that a little of what you call "catering" and I call "providing an appropriate education to each individual" would definitely increase the rate of learning and the improve the state of education in general.
Ivory, why does one of your classes only have 15 kids?
It seems like for the kids in the rest of your classes, your course really isn't too useful. You said yourself that a good portion of the kids won't finish the labs, won't get their questions answered, are being assigned busywork homework because some of the kids need the practice, and don't get enough of the teacher's time.
Those statements lead me to believe that the original premise, high school is useless, is not being negated in your classes. It's not your fault, but that doesn't make the course any more useful for the 8-10 kids who, in any given day, aren't finishing labs and aren't getting their questions answered. They might glean something from the copious amounts of homework, but in general, their time spent there is going to be largely wasted.
Great post whimsy. It's the same at my school--I have no idea why some classes are so much smaller than others but it just happens that way and we try to get our ELL kids into them so they can get the help they need.
What Ivory said doesn't make high school completely useless but it does mean that the kids aren't getting the education that we think they should be. I mean it's not useless in the sense that *where else are they going to get this material except in a science class?* b/c I can't imagine that most would study it on their own.
But that does lead us to the useful part--if a student would not choose to study chem on his own then chances are that he's not sufficiently interested in the subject to pursue it and if that's the case then why take it? And my answer to that is that I did develop an interest in science after I got to college but I struggled mightily b/c I hadn't had the prerequisites and every time I wanted to take a math or science class I had to take a remedial class first and that got expensive and I was paying for my own college so I did something else instead and in that sense I shot myself in the foot and for this reason alone it pays to stay in HS and learn the material. In other words, the kids need to stay and make the best of a bad situation and it's not good to lie to them and tell them we have the best education system in the world and all that crap. Just tell it like it is and they get out of it mostly what they put into it anyway.
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