Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I thought that gifted children were identified in grade school? If your godson's school system offers AP classes, each of them can take them, or not take them, according to their goals and abilities. The school will not lump them together as one person, any more than they would regular siblings.
i've come to the conclusion that most "gifted" children simply have a different developmental curve. Interestingly, mine was opposite. I was always behind my peers through high school. I never thought i was college material. When i did go to college, it was with the intent on getting a cert that would get me a job. However, i blossomed in college. I graduated in the top of my class (top for my major). Why? It seems i not only caught up to my peers, in my 20's, but passed them by as they stopped developing and i kept on going. I developed slower but i developed longer. In the end, i stood with the top of the class not the bottom. I passed many of my peers by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felinius
this is very true. Switching schools a lot, i got some great teaching and some substandard teaching. When you go from a great school to a standard or substandard school, of course a student will be pegged as gifted ... When in fact, it was just being taught ahead. I found that the whole "gifted" thing didn't matter too much when late middle/high school rolled around, and all that mattered was the number of the class you were in.
THIS THIS THIS
I only share in case it is helpful to someone else. We have had our kids in three schools. The first one had a very strong elementary academic base. I still remember having a conversation with the principal who said if they can keep a child through 3rd grade they will have the foundation needed to lead the way through rest of their schooling. When we moved, child #1 had just finished 3rd grade and child #2 had just finished 2nd grade. At the next school, child #1 was most certainly ahead (not necessarily smarter) and sailed through the next 3 grades at the top of the class, but never felt challenged. Child #2 achieved good grades, but they were unremarkable. The academics of the school were sub par, IMO. When they had finished 6th and 7th grade we moved and I was thrilled to find a GREAT school. Child #1 tested behind in math, however, the teacher said her thought processes were correct and put her into 8th grade math - she caught up very quickly and has easily held a 4.0 (the highest you can get here) taking the hardest classes available to her. She just finished the 10th grade. She has received difficult to achieve academic awards in every single subject 3 years running. Child #2 was also put into their correct grade level, but felt like they were catching up in all subjects for the next year and a half. Grades were a mix of As & Bs. Then the blossoming started to happen the above poster was referring to. Child #2 just finished the first year of high school and only had one B taking all honors classes, and even received a couple of academic awards and honor roll both semesters. Comparing their Pre ACT scores taken as freshmen Child #2 surpassed Child #1.
My point is this: Some kids are ahead because their foundation at the start is much, much stronger than others. It has taken child #2 their entire school career so far to try and catch up to child #1, and will probably be in college before they do. They are both equally intelligent and work hard. The difference was those first years of school.
One of my twin god sons has scored 250, 265 and 262 for science, maths and English MAP RIT tests. He scored 1780 on his SATs and recommended on state tests.
Other child scored good for grade level but significantly lower than his brother though he spends more time in studies. Both boys are 12 and are finishing up their 7th grade.
Both of them are enrolled in similar programs. I am wondering if one of them is GT and parents are scared to accept that one is different than other.
I think holding a child back from their full potential can be damaging. If a kid is smarter than his or her classmates then they should be taking advanced classes or be in college.
Its not uncommon for kids who are 12 - 16 to be in college.
I only share in case it is helpful to someone else. We have had our kids in three schools. The first one had a very strong elementary academic base. I still remember having a conversation with the principal who said if they can keep a child through 3rd grade they will have the foundation needed to lead the way through rest of their schooling. When we moved, child #1 had just finished 3rd grade and child #2 had just finished 2nd grade. At the next school, child #1 was most certainly ahead (not necessarily smarter) and sailed through the next 3 grades at the top of the class, but never felt challenged. Child #2 achieved good grades, but they were unremarkable. The academics of the school were sub par, IMO. When they had finished 6th and 7th grade we moved and I was thrilled to find a GREAT school. Child #1 tested behind in math, however, the teacher said her thought processes were correct and put her into 8th grade math - she caught up very quickly and has easily held a 4.0 (the highest you can get here) taking the hardest classes available to her. She just finished the 10th grade. She has received difficult to achieve academic awards in every single subject 3 years running. Child #2 was also put into their correct grade level, but felt like they were catching up in all subjects for the next year and a half. Grades were a mix of As & Bs. Then the blossoming started to happen the above poster was referring to. Child #2 just finished the first year of high school and only had one B taking all honors classes, and even received a couple of academic awards and honor roll both semesters. Comparing their Pre ACT scores taken as freshmen Child #2 surpassed Child #1.
My point is this: Some kids are ahead because their foundation at the start is much, much stronger than others. It has taken child #2 their entire school career so far to try and catch up to child #1, and will probably be in college before they do. They are both equally intelligent and work hard. The difference was those first years of school.
I agree. My experience has been that, the vast majority of the time, "gifted" kids are just ahead because they were taught ahead. I don't see them winning the race. They seem to gain more and more competition as each year passes and their peers catch up.
There are kids who are, naturally, gifted but I think they're really quite rare. What pushes G&T programs is parents who want bragging rights. In hindsight, I don't see how dd's G&T program helped her in the long run. I now see her grade skip as being actually harmful (She's the youngest student in all of her classes often by a year or more). I wish I had a do over on this one. I would have just let her be a kid and not worried about the right track but, kids don't come with instruction manuals and we do the best we can with what we know.
I'm now of the opinion that the truly gifted kids will not stop being gifted if they are in a standard program. I've learned that having a strong peer group is more important than academic challenge. I've learned that being ahead, academically, doesn't mean they're ready for the next step emotionally or developmentally. Looking back, I see no reason to have G&T programs other than to appease parents who don't know better. If I had it to do again, I would have left dd#2 in her original school with her strong group of friends and let school be easy for her. I think she would have learned more in the long run that way. *I* was the one who thought she needed to be challenged. I'm not sure why I thought that now. I was just going along with what others told me.
I think holding a child back from their full potential can be damaging. If a kid is smarter than his or her classmates then they should be taking advanced classes or be in college.
Its not uncommon for kids who are 12 - 16 to be in college.
I disagree. I think it's more damaging to take their peer group away. There is plenty of time to work on academics later. Time runs out on forming strong, same age, peer bonds.
I think holding a child back from their full potential can be damaging. If a kid is smarter than his or her classmates then they should be taking advanced classes or be in college.
Its not uncommon for kids who are 12 - 16 to be in college.
It is not uncommon, but it is really sad. Kids should have a childhood, not be rushed into a job they will do for the next 40 years and hate after 10-15. For many, probably most kids high school and college are the most fun and carefree times of their lives. A child in college is going to miss both because they are not going to have much fun in college. It always makes me sad when I see parents pushing their kids that hard. Just as bad as being born in a crack addict family IMO. Poor kid. However not everyone gets to be born into an ideal or even good situation. It just is what it is.
A kid who skips one or maybe two grades ahead will not miss everything, but to put a kid in college at 14, that is awful. What a shame. The sad thing is, they may go on to be a good doctor, or CEO of some company, but they would do that anyway. They are not going to become a world changing person because they skipped high school.
It is not uncommon, but it is really sad. Kids should have a childhood, not be rushed into a job they will do for the next 40 years and hate after 10-15. For many, probably most kids high school and college are the most fun and carefree times of their lives. A child in college is going to miss both because they are not going to have much fun in college. It always makes me sad when I see parents pushing their kids that hard. Just as bad as being born in a crack addict family IMO. Poor kid. However not everyone gets to be born into an ideal or even good situation. It just is what it is.
A kid who skips one or maybe two grades ahead will not miss everything, but to put a kid in college at 14, that is awful. What a shame. The sad thing is, they may go on to be a good doctor, or CEO of some company, but they would do that anyway. They are not going to become a world changing person because they skipped high school.
I feel bad about the way my dd has tracked. At the time, I had it in my head she HAD TO BE challenged. Like many, I thought she'd be, somehow, damaged if we didn't push her. I didn't stop to think what would happen 6 years in the future. Now she's running out of classes to take at the high school and feels like a fish out of water because she's not with her peer group.
Last year she had to decide whether or not to graduate early. She asked "Won't colleges be impressed if I graduate at 16?". I told her they would be, for about a year, and then no one will care. I would love a do over on this one. She didn't need the double promotion and she didn't need a G&T program. Looking back, I can see that what she needed was to share her childhood and school experiences with her peer group. Our decisions took that away from her. We thought we were doing right by her but we were thinking only about academics and performance not the social/emotional aspects. 20/20 hind sight says those were more important than academics.
Fortunately, we realized our mistake early enough that she can still have a semi normal high school experience. She's gotten into cheer and volleyball and spends a lot of time hanging out with her friends even though she never sees them in her classes. Her grades have slipped but I guess that's the trade off. When parents push only one aspect, it's only a matter of time before kids rebel. Too bad parents learn these things in hind sight.
I think holding a child back from their full potential can be damaging. If a kid is smarter than his or her classmates then they should be taking advanced classes or be in college.
Its not uncommon for kids who are 12 - 16 to be in college.
I live in a school district that has a large research university. In other words, there are a lot of professor's kids, also a lot of high tech worker's kids. (Just to set the scene) I have never heard of a 12 yo taking college classes, and only a few 16 yos.
To the OP: Middle school is sort of a sorting out time. Honors classes are offered in some subjects, and kids start going down their own paths. In my district, anyway, kids can skip a level of some course, and sometimes get skipped up a whole grade. Beware though, I know of one girl who started early (had a fall birthday and was tested and met the criteria), then skipped up a level in language arts/social studies, so that she was a person in a 6th grade body taking an 8th grade course. Her mom said she noticed a difference between her and the other kids when it came to insight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
I feel bad about the way my dd has tracked. At the time, I had it in my head she HAD TO BE challenged. Like many, I thought she'd be, somehow, damaged if we didn't push her. I didn't stop to think what would happen 6 years in the future. Now she's running out of classes to take at the high school and feels like a fish out of water because she's not with her peer group.
Last year she had to decide whether or not to graduate early. She asked "Won't colleges be impressed if I graduate at 16?". I told her they would be, for about a year, and then no one will care. I would love a do over on this one. She didn't need the double promotion and she didn't need a G&T program. Looking back, I can see that what she needed was to share her childhood and school experiences with her peer group. Our decisions took that away from her. We thought we were doing right by her but we were thinking only about academics and performance not the social/emotional aspects. 20/20 hind sight says those were more important than academics.
Fortunately, we realized our mistake early enough that she can still have a semi normal high school experience. She's gotten into cheer and volleyball and spends a lot of time hanging out with her friends even though she never sees them in her classes. Her grades have slipped but I guess that's the trade off. When parents push only one aspect, it's only a matter of time before kids rebel. Too bad parents learn these things in hind sight.
The bold tends to be an issue with many parents, myself included, although my kids never qualified for anything more than honors/AP classes at their own grade level.
OP, I would let these boys start 8th grade as scheduled. When they get to high school, there will be many opportunities to take honors/AP/IB and even college courses.
I live in a school district that has a large research university. In other words, there are a lot of professor's kids, also a lot of high tech worker's kids. (Just to set the scene) I have never heard of a 12 yo taking college classes, and only a few 16 yos.
To the OP: Middle school is sort of a sorting out time. Honors classes are offered in some subjects, and kids start going down their own paths. In my district, anyway, kids can skip a level of some course, and sometimes get skipped up a whole grade. Beware though, I know of one girl who started early (had a fall birthday and was tested and met the criteria), then skipped up a level in language arts/social studies, so that she was a person in a 6th grade body taking an 8th grade course. Her mom said she noticed a difference between her and the other kids when it came to insight.
The bold tends to be an issue with many parents, myself included, although my kids never qualified for anything more than honors/AP classes at their own grade level.
OP, I would let these boys start 8th grade as scheduled. When they get to high school, there will be many opportunities to take honors/AP/IB and even college courses.
In our zeal to be the best parents possible, sometimes, we can't see the forest for the trees. Too bad kids don't come with instruction manuals and parents don't listen to the professionals. The principal in dd#2's first school told us to wait until after 4th grade to decide if she was gifted. Other parents, with gifted kids , told me the school was just being lazy, didn't want to put the effort in to accomodate her... blah, blah, blah.... so we moved her to a charter school with a large program for gifted kids. I would take that back in a heartbeat and do what the first principal advised and wait to see if I had a do over. Even with the grade skip, dd seemed much more normal by time she was 10. At 15, she seems even more normal than back then. Still bright but not the stand out she was back then.
IMO, one of the things really wrong with education, in this country, is that parents think they know more than educators and fail to heed the professional advice given when it doesn't tell them what they want to hear. While the G&T school did tell me what I wanted to hear, in hindsight, I can see they didn't give dd what she needed. IF the G&T program had continued into high school, it, likely would have been great because dd would have kept those peers throughout her school career but, as things are, most parents pull their kids shortly after the G&T track ends in 7th grade. The logic being that it's not needed since kids pick their classes after that but with her peers scattered to the wind, the only thing left to do was put her back in the neighborhood school where she is, now, taking classes 1-2 years ahead of the peers she identifies with socially and emotionally. I think whole schools of brighter (what we call gifted) kids would be great as they'd have each other as peers but I really don't see the benefit or need for pull out programs or programs like the one dd was in that end in a certain grade. They're just a disruption to the norm.
I disagree. I think it's more damaging to take their peer group away. There is plenty of time to work on academics later. Time runs out on forming strong, same age, peer bonds.
Research on acceleration or grade skipping has been found to have almost uniformly positive results; acceleration is educationally and socially advantageous for highly gifted learners.
Of course, not all the students identified are truly highly gifted, but for those who are, holding them back is simply not the answer.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
, told me the school was just being lazy, didn't want to put the effort in to accomodate her... blah, blah, blah.... so we moved her to a charter school with a large program for gifted kids. I would take that back in a heartbeat and do what the first principal advised and wait to see if I had a do over. Even with the grade skip, dd seemed much more normal by time she was 10. At 15, she seems even more normal than back then. Still bright but not the stand out she was back then.
