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I think that in the past there were more people around to intervene and tell the bullier to knock it off. When I grew up, few people got away with bullying without someone putting the latter in his/her place. And it was rarely an adult doing the intervening. When you read about teenagers taking their lives now as a result of bullying, it's very disturbing.
As I read the above, I thought of my childhood and youth in the 40's and 50's in a small town. And parents were as often the bullies as peers at school. Certainly the working class fathers (my own included) I was exposed to would mercilessly belittle, humiliate or even physically threaten their kids when they failed to perform according to dad's expectations and needs.
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And to the OP, no, I don't think bullying toughens kids up.
As a blanket rule, no. But it certainly can toughen kids up, and in the process they can become bullies themselves or driven survivor types. I became the latter. It took about twenty years post-college for me to begin to be able to peel back the layers of survival callous (and callousness) and to attempt to find out if there was anybody home in there.
Can you describe how you were bullied, how you responded and what happened after your response?
I agree with you that some things that are classified as "bullying" today, are not. But that doesn't mean (and I don't think you're saying) that serious bullying doesn't take place.
In the 4th grade I was bullied by... my teacher. I don't know whay she choose to do this, but it happens. My response was to tuck my chin down and endure. I learned not to draw attention to myself - not to give her an excuse to interact with me at all. I also learned that - having one of the nicest 3rd grade teachers in the world - not everyone is the same and I must deal with them as they come. My parents agreed and gave me support/advise when I came home (there was no other teacher to have, thus I stayed in her classroom) and they said the same thing. I learned how to endure, which was a wonderful start to learning how to deal with crappy personalities I would face in the future - other teachers, college professors, bosses & co-workers, and peers that would bully me later.
I was bullied in the 6-7th grade by a kid too big to really be in our grade but he was nevertheless. I was a good student (grades & behavior) and he decided that I would be his target. I learned how to avoid him (even though he was in my classroom every period), I learned how to & how not to respond to him and give/deny him what he wanted. By the end of the 7th grade, he lost interest.
Unfortunately, someone else picked up the baton a little ways into the 8th grade. And this lasted until halfway through 9th grade, when I stood up to him. I got tired of his taunts: his driving by my house on his motorcycle. He would drive me back inside while I was shooting hoops. The bully was also a black belt in karate and scared the living daylights out of the rest of us. Finally I got tired of it and as he drive by the last time, I threw my basketball at him and nearly knocked him off his bike. I stood there - not moving, but glaring - and let him just think about it for a while. He never drove by my house again. Never made phone calls, sent letters or sent others to taunt me.
I could literally write a small novella concerning these three instances of my life, plus some others in college and some pretty crappy bosses & co-workers. But I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so. Suffice it to say, that I learned an awful lot by having to deal with these situations. My parents supported me, but didn't interfere: At first I didn't understand, but now I do. I learned. I learned coping skills. I wasn't given them.
Now is every student/kid like me? Of course not. But more are capable of doing this if the helicopter parents would let their kids grow up a bit.
Bullying should not go on - but this is not an ideal world. In an ideal world, there would be no bullying, every kid learns the same, all parents make the same amount of money and lavish the same amount of wonderful care and support on their kids. In an ideal world, there would be no strife and conflict. Many of you that advocate for the end of bullying are fighting a losing battle. While it is a wonderful goal in which to strive, it is also naive. As long as humans are humans, there will be bullies. This is a fact that cannot be denied or debated. Humans are flawed and must be dealt with based on those flaws. Thus, we must not only be on the look-out for bullying situations and stop them as we can, but we must also prepare our kids for a life in which they will always have the potential to deal with these pieces of crap.
Last edited by Starman71; 01-16-2014 at 04:27 AM..
How big researching area are brains? That is area which is possible violated by bullying. And how big is area that brain controls? That is a size of area what bullying is able to destroy. It is able to destroy all.
People born with different tempers and different environment (family etc.) . Different tempers react same type of bullying differently. What makes another strong, shatters another.
Also, if it continues several years, lets say ages 5-18 when people are on school, it lasts during whole progression age. Damaging her or his improvement every day. It is like brainwashing, even you would believe good things you subconciously act with a trait what your (violated) thinking and brain tells you to do.
Before you get succered into a new and positive environment and then you are able to add some new traits.If you never do, damages are perhaps permanent. Bullying can destroy someones life for next 80 years. Whole human life is ruined.
Bullying is a very serious problem and it should not be tolerated.
"Bullying" is a popular, overused word that merely leads back to parents who can't parent. These days, everybody just throws up their hands and gives it a "trending" name, another overused, incredibly inane word.
Whatever happened to parents punishing the bully? Whatever happened to kids fighting it out? Whatever happened to parents meeting and resolving things that way? Oh, but no! Let's give it a stupid name and be politically correct.
In the 4th grade I was bullied by... my teacher. I don't know whay she choose to do this, but it happens. My response was to tuck my chin down and endure. I learned not to draw attention to myself - not to give her an excuse to interact with me at all. I also learned that - having one of the nicest 3rd grade teachers in the world - not everyone is the same and I must deal with them as they come. My parents agreed and gave me support/advise when I came home (there was no other teacher to have, thus I stayed in her classroom) and they said the same thing. I learned how to endure, which was a wonderful start to learning how to deal with crappy personalities I would face in the future - other teachers, college professors, bosses & co-workers, and peers that would bully me later.
I was bullied in the 6-7th grade by a kid too big to really be in our grade but he was nevertheless. I was a good student (grades & behavior) and he decided that I would be his target. I learned how to avoid him (even though he was in my classroom every period), I learned how to & how not to respond to him and give/deny him what he wanted. By the end of the 7th grade, he lost interest.
Unfortunately, someone else picked up the baton a little ways into the 8th grade. And this lasted until halfway through 9th grade, when I stood up to him. I got tired of his taunts: his driving by my house on his motorcycle. He would drive me back inside while I was shooting hoops. The bully was also a black belt in karate and scared the living daylights out of the rest of us. Finally I got tired of it and as he drive by the last time, I threw my basketball at him and nearly knocked him off his bike. I stood there - not moving, but glaring - and let him just think about it for a while. He never drove by my house again. Never made phone calls, sent letters or sent others to taunt me.
I could literally write a small novella concerning these three instances of my life, plus some others in college and some pretty crappy bosses & co-workers. But I have neither the time nor the inclination to do so. Suffice it to say, that I learned an awful lot by having to deal with these situations. My parents supported me, but didn't interfere: At first I didn't understand, but now I do. I learned. I learned coping skills. I wasn't given them.
Now is every student/kid like me? Of course not. But more are capable of doing this if the helicopter parents would let their kids grow up a bit.
Bullying should not go on - but this is not an ideal world. In an ideal world, there would be no bullying, every kid learns the same, all parents make the same amount of money and lavish the same amount of wonderful care and support on their kids. In an ideal world, there would be no strife and conflict. Many of you that advocate for the end of bullying are fighting a losing battle. While it is a wonderful goal in which to strive, it is also naive. As long as humans are humans, there will be bullies. This is a fact that cannot be denied or debated. Humans are flawed and must be dealt with based on those flaws. Thus, we must not only be on the look-out for bullying situations and stop them as we can, but we must also prepare our kids for a life in which they will always have the potential to deal with these pieces of crap.
Thank you for responding. It does sound like your experiences helped you grow into a stronger person and that your parents had a good handle on what was going on and how much you could take. All I'm saying is that not every kid has the awareness that you had of your situation, or the wherewithal to deal with it at all. Even learning to avoid the bully is a tactic, or skill, that some kids are not sophisticated enough to employ. And while your parents did not interfere, it sounds like they supported you by saying that it was the teacher who was acting poorly, rather than blaming you in any way for the treatment you received. I think many parents respond to their own childrens' complaints by implying that the children are bringing it on themselves. That's a very different response from agreeing that the teacher (or other student) is a jerk, but sometimes in life you have to deal with jerks.
If you read through some of the other posts on here, you see that many peoples' experiences being bullied were nothing like yours. For them, it was unending misery and did not help them to grow into stronger people who are more resilient today. For children who are genuinely unable to deal with a situation, either by avoiding it, or fighting back, I think it is entirely appropriate for an adult to step in. And, at the risk of being repetitive, if the adults in the situation are unable or unwilling to help, then bullying can be extremely damaging.
...Whatever happened to parents punishing the bully? Whatever happened to kids fighting it out? Whatever happened to parents meeting and resolving things that way? Oh, but no! Let's give it a stupid name and be politically correct.
Stupid, stupid, stupid.
From what I think I have seen, and see, parents punishing the bully and parents meeting to resolve things are too far from present-day norms. There was a time - quite long ago in my childhood and youth - when parents did do these things, not always willingly or gracefully by any means, but they did it because the norms of the day still revolved around responsibility and honesty, and a real sense of living community. It was shameful not to be responsible and honest. Half a century later our society has changed enormously, and those norms are now vestigal. The society that needed those norms is as defunct as the Studebaker.
Those norms have been replaced by denial and blame, because our society on every practical level strongly emphasizes and celebrates the individual - the individual as a fortress, isolated and inviolate. Neither punishment of bullies nor the willingness to enter into a situation of discussion, admission and resolution with others is on the social menu. These norms are fossils that are quite contrary spirit of the last thirty years in the U.S.
"Political Correctness" is the resort of a society that has lost its cohesiveness, the ability of its members to reach compromises, and which then desperately resorts to legal liberalism and institutional norms instead.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 01-16-2014 at 02:50 PM..
I remember my son's kindergarten teacher telling the kids to "use their words" meaning they
shouldn't have to get physical. We did this when we were kids, although we used to call it "chop down sessions" which was essentially bantering back and forth until the last comment put that person in their place. It was very cruel making fun of the fat kid, 4 eyes, gay (which today if they guys are defending the bully they are considered gay) so we are telling our young men to deal with their emotions which really requires growing thicker skin. I remember an obese kid in HS got satisfaction out of losing weight and learning martial arts then proceeded to knock the crap out of the bully. Back then the threat was someone bringing a knife to school. We have always lived in a bully culture and always will. It's time to learn coping skills and to start paying closer attention. I thought we were supposed to have zero tolerance in our schools for bullying.
Some good comments on this topic here. I think there should be tough penalties for the relentless bullies. Kick them out of school permanently and criminally charge them for their actions. I recall the case of poor Gaby Molina, just 12, that hung herself due to the intense bullying at school and online. Some of the kids at the school said they were afraid due to the level of bullying that went on at that school. The usual stance the school district and principals take is to cover your own rear end. Send out some useless material after the fact or have counselors come in after the suicide. What was being done prior to that? Obviously not near enough. In Gaby's school district initially the principal was open to a parents group but then most likely because she feared losing her position at the school became defensive and banned the group from meetings. In Gaby's case no one was arrested for terrorizing her. No one was expelled. So it goes on with really little fear of any substantial punishment. Here is an article about Gaby. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Syndrome.html
Maybe you have heard of Amanda Todd, another young girl pushed too far. How very sad the person responsible is not behind bars, or better yet clubbed to death. This guy wrote a song about bullying with Amanda in mind. I think it's very good. I don't know these kids but still I won't ever forget them.
And this happens in other countries too. In this case it was a girl in South Africa. Now she is afraid to go back to school. I did write to the Gracies about this gal hoping they might be able to send her a dvd or offer her some encouraging words. They did get back to me with a nice letter. They seem like good people. http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-cour...face-1.1598025
Last edited by todd00; 01-16-2014 at 01:52 PM..
Reason: Forgot something.
May I say something here, please? I was bullied emotionally to the point that I did not want to even be seen when I was growing up, and, do you know what it did for me? Read some of my other posts. I'm practically a sociophobe; I see unfamiliar people like landmines; I try to avoid them because I'm afraid some unknown trigger might set them off. I try to stay out of the line of fire, still, and I'm an adult. Fear of being teased or bullied keeps me, as an adult, from wanting to engage in conversations, meet new people, or try new things. I have not successfully held down a job for any length of time, because I do not trust or communicate with my bosses or coworkers. I'm also needy, emotionally needy and unsure of myself. I constantly need praise and approval from other people to feel "normal." I discourage myself and belittle my own ideas. Depression is a normal state of being for me. The weird thing, too, is that I crave companionship. I'm very lonely, especially since my mom died. I want to do well and please other people, but I have these little teasing voices in my head telling me that I can't really do anything worthwhile. They're very familiar and logical to me. I've also grown to love constructive criticism, but I'm also overly critical of myself and others at times.
I will say, though, that adult world is a much more forgiving place than kid world. People don't appear to judge you as quickly as children do, and there are ways to come out of your shell. Plus, I did okay in college. I didn't get into an ivy league school, because, one, I was too afraid to enroll in extracurricular activities or communicate my desires to my teachers, and two, I just didn't take the right academic path, but I did do well enough to get into a public college and earn a degree. I found out in college that I'm a very intelligent person, and, as an adult, people complement me on my learning and achievements. I've also started trusting people a little more since college and going to counseling, but there are still days when I wonder why I was even born. I'm so disappointed with myself. I could have done so much more had I not let those "perfect people" push me around. Also, I'm still judged unfavorably when I meet people; I'm afraid to make eye contact or engage in small talk.
Also, I sometimes see people who push other people around and control them as desirable people. I'm attracted to them. I'm sure this won't be good news if I ever get a boyfriend. I try to stay away from guys partially because of this. I get pleasure, though, out of seeing someone able to use emotional power recklessly: the boss who controls his coworkers' personal lives, the teacher who blackmails his students, the mother who whips her children into shape, etc., because I know that emotional wielding is one of the strongest weapons the human being possesses. I'm fascinated by it and would like to learn the dynamics of it inside and out. I think I would use my power for good, if possible, but this power is a mystery to me.
Yes, bullying did make me a unique person, but, more or less, for the worse. I think I would have fared better had I not been a social outcast.
I live in Denmark. Since the almost 20 years that have passed since I immigrated from the US to Denmark, bullying at all levels has been a hot topic in the news. More importantly, politicians, school leaders, teachers -- all -- take it seriously and anti-bullying socialization is built into teaching programs from even before primary school (because most children are in state-run schools from the time shortly after they are born).
But, judging from the media, it is still a big problem. If a country, like Denmark, which has the ability and tradition of mobilizing resources to socialize children to the "danish way of life" (with a strong emphasis on social goals), can't stop bullying who can and by what means?
Of course, it may be that the media also has a tradition of drawing attention to bullying that does not vary with success at reducing bullying. It is also an ideologically-neutral for politicians, who can press it at will to make all the voters happy.
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Coping skills
