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Good heavens, they're not THAT old, and this kind of stuff has been going on for ages, even when I was a kid among a certain subset.
Disagree.
While some parents have always been more pushy than others, there are are very real structural changes that will make this generation's life much rougher than what your kids faced.
I can assure you most parents don't have this level of energy, especially working parents. [ You're thinking - GREAT I WINNNNNN! Those American lazy parents can't keep up! My kid is #1! ]
It's OKAY to relax.
It's OKAY to be a Type-B parent and to have Type-B kids. Those kids/parents probably self-regulate better.
Correction on helicopter parent, I think the term for paving the way for your kids is "Snowplow Parent".
These are the lines I hang onto during those "Screw it!" days...when I'm so frazzled I just let them vegetate.
Disagree.
While some parents have always been more pushy than others, there are are very real structural changes that will make this generation's life much rougher than what your kids faced.
Tell me what these structural changes are, please.
Yesterday I read an article (forgot where) where kids of Asian tiger parents (first generation immigrants pushing their children to excel in academics in the US and Canada) were all commenting below the article. It was really sad to hear how they were robbed of their childhoods. I almost wanted to set up a support group for them -- as they were sharing stories in the "comments" section -- and finally realizing they weren't alone (as children, they were not allowed to leave the house for anything but planned activities like violin lessons or chinese class).
These kids excelled in school because they were pushed SO hard, but ended up hating their forced career paths (that mom/dad required). As adults, many of them are not doing well, and depressed and guess what - changing careers to something less stressful of their choice. Others freaked out and traveled until they had no money. Others felt trapped with 100K in student debt.
The lucky ones were allowed more independence in college and blossomed - IF they were allowed choices in their major and allowed to have friends and boy/girlfriends (some were not allowed until post-college and grad school).
Sad.
Just a thought....if your chlid got in a serious accident tomorrow, would you be happy that you spent all this time pressuring the child; or wish his/her childhood was more carefree?
It's a way to look at things...but I don't think we can afford to think this way.
While insane tigering can be quite damaging, some measure of it clearly brings children advantages over the long run - which they are not capable of appreciating now, when they'd rather play.
Between the risk of some terrible accident in childhood and the risk of becoming a disposable slave in a gig economy due to lack of any academic distinction, I think the latter is much higher.
I find it interesting how many parents seem so intent to maximize their children's quality of life/happiness during childhood but they are not as gang-ho about their children's quality of life in adulthood. Most parents may be plagued by short-term thinking or just plain overestimate the odds of their children being just fine in adulthood, no matter what.
They won't - not "no matter what".
Going by the most recent statistics on the life expectancy of uneducated, lower income Americans...and the causes of unexpectedly early death...I would continue to worry more about adulthood than whether their childhood was only fairy dust, fun and frolic (or just messing around, video-gaming and Face-booking).
Given how children of Type B parents choose to spend their lax childhoods nowadays (definitely not frolicking in the grass)...I think I'd rather keep them reading or doing Math.
Tell me what these structural changes are, please.
It's called the global economy and population growth in the light of global expectations for modern living.
Battle for crumbs when most resources are gathered at the top.
If you think nothing changed since your kids were in elementary school....you're just plain unaware.
It's called the global economy and population growth in the light of global expectations for modern living.
Battle for crumbs when most resources are gathered at the top.
If you think nothing changed since your kids were in elementary school....you're just plain unaware.
I didn't say nothing had changed. However, if you don't think we had a global economy in the 90s, when my kids were in elementary school I suggest you do a little research on that. We were going through some pretty fundamental changes then, too, into the computer/service economy. There's never been a time from the 20th century on that the world hasn't been changing at a pretty fast rate.
I didn't say nothing had changed. However, if you don't think we had a global economy in the 90s, when my kids were in elementary school I suggest you do a little research on that. We were going through some pretty fundamental changes then, too, into the computer/service economy. There's never been a time from the 20th century on that the world hasn't been changing at a pretty fast rate.
Your global economy is not today's global economy. The competition and requirements for entry into (and keeping) good professions and positions are increasingly onerous. With tighter budgets, fewer resources and fewer good jobs created - the competition is brutal and it will be even more so tomorrow.
Parents, of course, are free to take the view that things have always been the same and things have always "worked out" somehow, so no need to fret about children's future. Or they can err on the safe side and reject this view...while NOT counting on their children coming of age in some kind of Finnish Utopia.
Not that I don't like Finnish Utopias...I'd vote for one tomorrow... , but you get the idea.
Besides, there is one other thing. If we can forget for one second about insane competition, Darwin, jobs, and who's gonna eat cake and who won't...there is something to be said about academic excellence for its own sake. Whether I can ensure financial security with academics or not, I want my children to be well educated. Even if through some kind of bad luck strike, they will end up well-educated janitors.
I want them to be well-read, articulate, eloquent, erudite, sharp. Yes, in addition to a good heart and solid character. There's something uplifting, liberating and distinguished about that, money in the pocket or not.
All this can only be achieved with serious, conscientious, steady studying. Not by being a B-type or messing around in the name of having a good childhood. If you can't get to the point where you can actually derive pleasure from education, such as reading a good book, having a good conversation with a friend, solving a problem, playing music....as opposed to the facile and imbecilic favorite pass-times of the masses (electronics and Social Media)...then too bad.
Your parents have other plans for you right now and for now, you're under their roof. So might as well have some fun with your studies. The more you do it, the more fun it becomes.
Your global economy is not today's global economy. The competition and requirements for entry into (and keeping) good professions and positions are increasingly onerous. With tighter budgets, fewer resources and fewer good jobs created - the competition is brutal and it will be even more so tomorrow.
Parents, of course, are free to take the view that things have always been the same and things have always "worked out" somehow, so no need to fret about children's future. Or they can err on the safe side and reject this view...while NOT counting on their children coming of age in some kind of Finnish Utopia.
Not that I don't like Finnish Utopias...I'd vote for one tomorrow... , but you get the idea.
Besides, there is one other thing. If we can forget for one second about insane competition, Darwin, jobs, and who's gonna eat cake and who won't...there is something to be said about academic excellence for its own sake. Whether I can ensure financial security with academics or not, I want my children to be well educated. Even if through some kind of bad luck strike, they will end up well-educated janitors.
I want them to be well-read, articulate, eloquent, erudite, sharp. Yes, in addition to a good heart and solid character. There's something uplifting, liberating and distinguished about that, money in the pocket or not.
All this can only be achieved with serious, conscientious, steady studying. Not by being a B-type or messing around in the name of having a good childhood. If you can't get to the point where you can actually derive pleasure from education, such as reading a good book, having a good conversation with a friend, solving a problem, playing music....as opposed to the facile and imbecilic favorite pass-times of the masses (electronics and Social Media)...then too bad.
Your parents have other plans for you right now and for now, you're under their roof. So might as well have some fun with your studies. The more you do it, the more fun it becomes.
1. Funny, I thought I was living in today's economy. The economy is always changing. That's no argument for why it was so much easier for my kids in the 1990s/2000s. (Both graduated from HS in the 2000s.) That's just whining. As far as entry into professions, that's something I know a lot about from my kids as they're both fairly new in theirs. I'm not sure I agree that it's so much more brutal now than when it was when I graduated in the early 70s, right around the time Nixon clamped on wage and price controls, or when DH finished grad school in 1980, in the midst of a recession!
2. Of course academic excellence for its own sake is desirable. I've never said differently. I'll point out, you don't get into highly ranked liberal arts colleges (DD#1) or prestigious programs of large state universities (#2) if you don't have an excellent record. You certainly don't get into grad school with mediocre college grades. Thus is has always been! That's what I find so insulting about this turn this thread has taken; this implication (basically stated by another poster) that kids of my kids' era simply "stayed awake in class", did little more than their nails, and had all this handed to them; and the implication that I was some sort of slacker parent (made very clear by another poster) that allowed them to over-indulge in "facile and imbecile pass-times"!
You guys need to watch these slurs you sling around!
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 11-11-2015 at 07:27 AM..
1. Funny, I thought I was living in today's economy. The economy is always changing. That's no argument for why it was so much easier for my kids in the 1990s/2000s. (Both graduated from HS in the 2000s.) That's just whining. As far as entry into professions, that's something I know a lot about from my kids as they're both fairly new in theirs. I'm not sure I agree that it's so much more brutal now than when it was when I graduated in the early 70s, right around the time Nixon clamped on wage and price controls, or when DH finished grad school in 1980, in the midst of a recession!
2. Of course academic excellence for its own sake is desirable. I've never said differently. I'll point out, you don't get into highly ranked liberal arts colleges (DD#1) or prestigious programs of large state universities (#2) if you don't have an excellent record. You certainly don't get into grad school with mediocre college grades. Thus is has always been! That's what I find so insulting about this turn this thread has taken; this implication (basically stated by another poster) that kids of my kids' era simply "stayed awake in class", did little more than their nails, and had all this handed to them; and the implication that I was some sort of slacker parent (made very clear by another poster) that allowed them to over-indulge in "facile and imbecile pass-times"!
You guys need to watch these slurs you sling around!
Well...sorry, but you don't have a credible argument with that bolded line.
Yes, there is a significant difference already between what was happening in the 90's in the job market and what is happening now. There will be an even bigger one when current elementary school children hit the job market.
I can see it first hand with the requirements I faced as opposed to what my sister is facing going down the same career path, only 10 years later. The difference is both striking and frightening. And the data bears out my position - not yours.
Well...sorry, but you don't have a credible argument with that bolded line.
Yes, there is a significant difference already between what was happening in the 90's in the job market and what is happening now. There will be an even bigger one when current elementary school children hit the job market.
I can see it first hand with the requirements I faced as opposed to what my sister is facing going down the same career path, only 10 years later. The difference is both striking and frightening. And the data bears out my position - not yours.
Perhaps, though I'm not sure. I certainly don't see what that has to do with education, especially in the early grades.
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, but you get the idea. 
