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When I said shorter days I meant fewer classes so individual classes. I'm thinking a true trimester system like the universities use where students take maybe 5 classes at a time. Two trimesters would be equal to one semester leaving plenty of room for electives and for kids who just need more time, classes could be taught as three trimester classes. By lengthening the school year you could keep school hours the same even though you shorten the day.
You'd have to do some finagling for things you want to have every day every trimester, like band/chorus/drama or PE.
When I said shorter days I meant fewer classes so individual classes. I'm thinking a true trimester system like the universities use where students take maybe 5 classes at a time. Two trimesters would be equal to one semester leaving plenty of room for electives and for kids who just need more time, classes could be taught as three trimester classes. By lengthening the school year you could keep school hours the same even though you shorten the day.
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Originally Posted by pkbab5
You'd have to do some finagling for things you want to have every day every trimester, like band/chorus/drama or PE.
Ivory, that would make it even harder for teachers to have summer jobs. Not that I'm against your idea, mind you. I don't think second jobs for teachers should be a priority in what's best for kids.
pkbab5, you just offer those courses every trimester. I don't think that would be so difficult. It might mean that you'd have to take two trimesters of PE to get enough PE credits.
High school sports teams practice and compete when they are off school. Basketball teams will typically have games or practices on all but typically three days over the Christmas holidays. We are not allowed to practice/have games seven days a week in PA.
See this year-round schedule: http://www1.dcsdk12.org/ResourceLibr...dEducation.pdf
There are several other schedules, too, though this is typical, from what I've seen in Colorado. Now if the entire state were on such a schedule, there'd be no problem. However, if some did it and some didn't, it would be quite chaotic. It would be especially difficult if high schools used this system for overcrowding, and 1/4 -1/3 of the kids were not in school during some of these times. My state's rules for sports/activities require kids to be enrolled in school. When used to address overcrowding, there is no time that all students are attending school. "Even though students go to school the same number of days on a four-track, year-round calendar, school is in session 48 weeks out of the year rather than the conventional 36. However, only three-fourths of the student population is in school at any particular time. ... Three of the four tracks (A, C and D) start the new school year on the same day in July. The fourth track (B) starts three weeks later, when Track C begins its first three-week break."
Plus much more.
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
Teachers shouldn't have to, the issue is the local governments not wanting to increase local taxes. Arizona, perfect case study on this. Arizona is in the bottom 5 for state funding AND school performance for the US. I believe somewhere around 47th in both. They can't get enough qualified math teachers because they want calculus and trig for 9th grade algebra teachers. They actually had to lower math teacher standards to get this. That's partially because they only make 35K a year. Arizona is roughly about average when it comes to America's COL. Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
It's not enough for a single parent to raise a kid on. Living Wage Calculator - Living Wage Calculation for Maricopa County, Arizona And yet Arizona think that we need to push students towards charter schools and private schools (which offers MUCH higher pay, yet smaller availability.) In my "city" it is about a 8k a year higher for starting teachers (but you don't exactly get as good benefits as public schools do so in a way, it's a bit of a wash.) Charter School Teacher Salary in Surprise, AZ - Salary Genius
I wish we could re-think the funding to be able to get the best teachers. I know a good number of students that I work with that hate their teachers and the way they teach (yet like how relatable I can make it because I can speak and explain on their level.) Before anyone asks, I am looking to become a teacher by passing one of these tests (I got a degree in business management so I either have to get a CTE teaching application, a masters in education OR pass one of these tests to gain certification) and in fact delayed the math due to the change (not that it is a problem with me but I want the bugs out of the system.) I want to be a teacher to do what a 11th grade English teacher and a 12th grade business teacher did for me, and give me vision. I was a good student because I was lazy. I didn't do homework because I would just retain stuff. I wouldn't see the logic in drilling in math problems because I retained x=(-b+/-(b^2-4ac)^(1/2))/2A for finding what numbers solve for X in X^2 problems that don't come out evenly. I could have done a lot better in school, I just wasn't challenged and didn't like going to school and dealing with idiots that were classmates. I see some students like that I work with and they relate to me for the most part and I am able to level with them and be a middle-man in a way.
It seems like there are many states that claim to be 47th, 48th, 49th in ed funding. Colorado is one of them. It all depends on what you're counting as school funding. I tend not to believe this stuff any more. Good luck with your plans.
Ivory, that would make it even harder for teachers to have summer jobs. Not that I'm against your idea, mind you. I don't think second jobs for teachers should be a priority in what's best for kids.
pkbab5, you just offer those courses every trimester. I don't think that would be so difficult. It might mean that you'd have to take two trimesters of PE to get enough PE credits.
I realize that. That's why I said earlier that the teacher pay issue would have to be addressed. It should ne addressed now because we work as many hours as anyone else. We just work a lot of comp time during the school year we get back during the summer. One of the considerations has to be that in taking away summer job opportunities from teachers their pay is reduced so a year round schedule would have to adjust pay accordingly.
Advantages would be that the trimester system includes time for repeating courses if necessary, some courses could be offered at a slower pace across all three trimesters, students who stay on track would have extra room for more electives, students would take fewer classes at one time and would be able to focus more on what they were learning, teachers would have fewer classes to teach and both teachers and students would have more time per day for homework.
Some districts in Michigan are on trimesters but they still have the traditional school year. They did not shorten the school day or lengthen the school year. That's a struggle. I think you need to lengthen the school year to do this but you can shorten the day as a result. I'm proposing the trimester schedule (5 classes per day where I know it's used) with a shorter day and longer year. Maybe cut summer down to 6 weeks and include a fall break so the school year has 4 more weeks.
I don't see a way to fix it in all states though. Southern states would see AC costs shoot up in summer. That is a big part of it. Schools don't get the funding to do anything like that.
I don't see a way to fix it in all states though. Southern states would see AC costs shoot up in summer. That is a big part of it. Schools don't get the funding to do anything like that.
I don't see a way to fix it in all states though. Southern states would see AC costs shoot up in summer. That is a big part of it. Schools don't get the funding to do anything like that.
If they did an honest comparison, the additional costs of AC would pale compared to the cost of having a bunch of unoccupied kids during the summer today (most communities incur high costs for welfare and neighborhood programs during that time) and increased welfare caused by inefficient schooling today.
As mentioned by me and some others earlier in the thread, the month or more lost to "recover" in the fall from the long break is time that at-risk students--yes, Southern states, I'm looking at you--cannot afford to lose.
One month vs. three, that's the issue at hand. Schools releasing students for recess in June or May has to deal with one of the hotter months to cover AC bills. Many lose money that way. By comparison, schools lose time for a month or so. The issue here is how do you monetize the losses from that? You can't really.
Also to the welfare argument, wouldn't one have the same issues with year long sxhool and shorter hours?
You'd have to do some finagling for things you want to have every day every trimester, like band/chorus/drama or PE.
Why? Do we want kids to take all three at once every trimester in high school? They can't do that now and get math, English, science, social studies and foreign language. On a trimester system kids would take two trimesters a year of math, English, social studies and science. You could easily work around electives unless you're trying to do them every trimester then you'd get limited but that's a problem now.
On a trimester system there are 15 trimesters per year. On a 6 class semester system there are 12. 7 classes gives you 14. You'd have more room for electives in a trimester system. No, you wouldn't have band, chorus, drama and PE every day all year long but you can't do that now and get your requirements in for graduation even on a 7 period day. You'd need an 8 period day to do that.
I don't know what the requirements are where you are but our kids are only required to take one year of PE. Many band students do take band every semester and they could continue to do so.
Why? Do we want kids to take all three at once every trimester in high school? They can't do that now and get math, English, science, social studies and foreign language. On a trimester system kids would take two trimesters a year of math, English, social studies and science. You could easily work around electives unless you're trying to do them every trimester then you'd get limited but that's a problem now.
On a trimester system there are 15 trimesters per year. On a 6 class semester system there are 12. 7 classes gives you 14. You'd have more room for electives in a trimester system. No, you wouldn't have band, chorus, drama and PE every day all year long but you can't do that now and get your requirements in for graduation even on a 7 period day. You'd need an 8 period day to do that.
I don't know what the requirements are where you are but our kids are only required to take one year of PE. Many band students do take band every semester and they could continue to do so.
We're on an A/B block, so our students have 8 subjects each semester for four nine-week quarters. A student can take band or choir or PE every semester for four years. Only one year of PE and one of fine arts is required, but the members of the choir, band, and sports teams often take their classes every term. Our students have four classes a day, while teachers have three and a 90-minute planning period every day. Our semester ends at Christmas. Third term ends at spring break. Then it's the end of the school year. It works for us.
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They actually had to lower math teacher standards to get this. That's partially because they only make 35K a year. Arizona is roughly about average when it comes to America's COL. Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
