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Old 04-17-2016, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,525,084 times
Reputation: 14692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
Time with family is one of the most important things our society needs. Sadly though the FAMILY of 100 years ago no longer exists. Many families have two Mommies, two Daddies, No Daddies, Single Mommy and who know what in the future. Political Correctness has been the most effective tool in the Devil's tool box since he tempted Eve with the forbidden fruit! We need to get the Federal Government totally out of the education system. Put Local School Boards back in control.

Is it better to have people in charge of education (local school boards) that want the education of those in their charge to receive the VERY BEST education possible? OR is it better to have people in charge of education (Federal DOE) that want every child to have an "equal education"? Think about it before you decide.




I really wish one of the predictions I made in high school had come true (we had an assignment to predict what life would be like at the turn of the century). I predicted that because both parents would be working the average work week would get shorter. That two part time jobs would replace one full time working parent and people would have more time off. That seemed logical but it didn't happen. I would love to see this. Family time is at a premium. This is another reason I think we need a shorter school day and less homework (but we'll need a longer year to compensate for the lost time). Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what we do at school to make life more sane if parents are still working long hours. To increase family time we'd need to address work hours for parents in addition to the school schedule.


My answer is both. IMO the basics should be determined by the larger governing body because of mobility within our society. A child should be able to move from Texas to Illinois and not be hopelessly lost. As things are now switching schools is quite harmful to a child's education. We should have an agreed upon set of standards that everyone follows but they should require less than a school year to teach leaving room for the local schools to decide what to add. Kind of like our auto emissions standards. Most of the country operates on one standard but states like California have even stricter standards. The basic requirements for each grade and subject should be the same across the board. It's added material that would be different.


And FTR the feds aren't in charge. They may set the standards but no one actually checks to make sure they're taught and learned. The tests they give are not related to those standards. I could teach them or not teach them and no one would care as long as my students pass the test. So control is in the hands of the local body. The standards are treated like a recommendation and from where I sit many schools simply ignore them. I know my dd's chemistry class didn't come anywhere near teaching what I teach and I didn't teach all of the standards due to time constraints. The same class in two different schools is not the same class. Until the day they actually start testing to see that our kids are learning the standards the feds set we're still in control. As things are the standards are open to interpretation by individual teachers. 10 teachers could teach 10 different things and claim they're teaching the same standard.


Also FTR, I like NGSS. When I first looked at the standards my reaction was "Ok that'll take me 6 months. What do I do with the rest of the year?". Then I learned that NGSS is intended to be our floor. The minimum you get taught. So for me it's business as usual because I hit all of the NGSS standards for chemistry and more...but I expect no one will actually check anyway. In fact I'm sure of it. The SAT was just adopted in Michigan and the SAT doesn't even have a science section. They put science questions in with math and reading so the real question is can my students do science math and reading not did they learn the standards I'm supposed to teach.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 04-17-2016 at 09:01 AM..
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,883,528 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Liking something and it being beneficial are two entirely different things. Research shows that our students forget a lot over the long summer break, resulting in us losing more education time when we have to review the next year (we can't just pick up where we left off). Not all kids get to go to camp and you can still go to camp with a shorter summer break.
Not so much. Say a Boy Scout camp has oh sites for 20 troop campsites with 3 "adult tents" and 7 "kids tents" that's only 21 youth per site or 210 youth who can go to camp before it is maxed out. Also we see issues of a standardized year. The next National Jamboree which sees 40k youth and adults would see a hit if they don't have enough schools off. The same goes with a traditional summer camp, what if there are no camps open during the week your district blocks off, would they then allow an exception to miss school?

Quote:
What is the purpose of school? If it is to educate then summers off are not beneficial. And kids don't work just in the summer. Most kids who have a job have it year round and often school work suffers because of it. You're living in a dream world here where kids work only in the summer, don't forget what they learned during summer and don't require long reviews because of the summers off.
You're living in a dream world if things will just magically "fall into place."

Quote:
Regarding staff issues: I'll admit to glossing over this one with an eye roll because only a non educator would want educational policy driven by non educational issues. Period. The staff issues will work themselves out. Perhaps pay will adjust. I don't know but this one will settle on it's own. Schools will do what they need to attain and retain the staff they need. The system will adjust.


It has been noted that child care would adjust too. Do you really think it would stay the same if the school year changed?
I'm lumping these two together as in some ways, they are connected. I believe in a previous post I mentioned a co-worker who left a month ago after Spring Break ended, that she did so to remove child care costs and gas used for the trips. Like me, she is one of these in danger of a paycut, should we shift from longer days with semesters for shorter days with trimesters. As I mentioned, it is basically a $53.25 drop per week and not including full-time benefits being dropped. Full-time status can be an issue it could add even more, hurting the budget. Case in point, as a child care aide on a normal week I'd work a seven-hour day on a Monday and four five-hour days on a typical Tuesday-Friday. This would be a 27 hour work week. If they do go it will turn into a 35 hour a week job and full-time and in turn raise costs. This may encourage more parents to change logic and perhaps become stay-at-home parents. At the same time, paraprofessionals and teaching assistants would drop down in hours because isn't a need so they may have to decrease the full-time cut off which would in-turn increase payroll expenses while cutting pay.

As with most things in economics, most people realize what happens on their plate. Home economics is important to most. When economy hits home, it's an issue. A few reasons my district was able to pass the override was because of the state tying up a settlement because "the state couldn't pay it" causing such programs as all-day kindergarten and bus routes to be cut. At the begining of the school year, my district was lambasted by some parents on the news for "forcing kids to now walk in heat and dangerous neighborhoods to school" (Parents angry over Dysart school bus route changes - ABC15 Arizona, Dysart district bus-route changes draw some parents.) When parents see things cut that they use, typically if they were for the issue, they are now against it. No matter the emotional appeal you can make with semesters to trimesters, the economics is key.

Quote:
I've paid attention. Your objections have been answered. Yet you persist. You are not hearing the answers to your objections. I do find it interesting that you note that it's difficult to take a trimester break from a subject and come back to it but ignore me when I say that the same thing happens with a summer break. In answer to this you can structure your year so that you don't skip tri's for sequential classes. This was initially an argument against tris but it seems to have worked itself out in the districts that are on trimesters. My suggestion is modify the trimester system so that the pacing slows down by lengthening the year and shortening the day. Since you admit that taking a break from a subject is bad, why do you insist that summer breaks are good? Do you think kids don't use algebra in geometry? Geometry in Algebra II? Physical science in chemistry or physics? Last year's foreign language material this year?
To the underlined part, trimesters are a bit longer than summer break coming in at another month to a month and a half longer and that is NOT including you put a vacation for a week or two between terms. Plus, you have new knowledge muddying up the water. Say from my previous example you take Algebra 1, Geology, English 9-1 and then the next term they take World History 1, Biology and Creative Writing, followed by Algebra 2, English 9-2 and World History 2 the last term in 9th grade. So depending on your set up, that can be anywhere from 16 weeks (4 months) to possibly 20 weeks (5 months) in between using Algebra 1 knowledge base for Algebra 2. By comparison, summer is about 10 weeks with limited knowledge and memory creation. So perhaps a summer is better for students even if you don't see it.

I was reading an article from Slate asking Do Kids Need a Summer Vacation? for information on the length and an interesting note is that Brooklyn had students goto school for a half year even though it was mostly open year round prior to mandatory education.
Quote:
In 1842, Detroit's academic year lasted approximately 260 days, New York's 245, and Chicago's 240. But since education wasn't mandatory in most states until the 1870s, attendance was low. Despite the official schedule, many kids ended up spending the same amount oftime in school back then as they do now. Brooklyn school officials, for example, reported in 1850 that more than half their students showed up just six months a year.
Imagine trying to propose people paying for a school that you only have most students going six months out of a 245 day school year. You can just imagine the response today if they had this response...
Quote:
Poor attendance got some people wondering if such a long academic calendar was worthwhile. Why keep schools open year-round if most kids don't even go? Reformers also warned that goody-goodies who did show up every day might burn out. Many physicians at the time felt that students were too frail, both in mind and body, for so many days at their desk. Too much education, they argued, could impair a child's health.
From another article by Benjamin Studebaker, a longer school year could hinder creativity. Me, I am very creative and in a way it helps me with working with my students. I also notice how breaks help them (albeit it can be hard reigning them back in.)
Quote:
This assumption is indefensible. There are many skills students acquire during the summer at a faster rate than they acquire them during the school year. In particular, there is one essential skill our schools ignore that summers are a panacea for–creativity.

During the school year, students spend their days taking orders from teachers and parents. They do assignments, they study, they take tests, and so on. They occasionally get short recesses, there’s less recess to go around all the time in recent years–unstructured time for the average American student fell from 57 hours per week in 1983 to 48 hours in 2003. Schools are cutting recesses to increase the time available for academic subjects under the influence of legislation like No Child Left Behind. 40% of schools have cut recess time since that law was passed. The benefits of unstructured time for play are quite many, even for adults, let alone for children.

Summer vacation is really one big, long, extended recess. It’s a chunk of time for children to play, to recharge, to explore interests that don’t receive class time in school, to self-manage their time without the constant imposition of structure. Summer is a time to play sports, to do art, to play games, to socialize with friends, to explore hobbies and subjects outside the curriculum.
You know how much Geometry other than area, volume, surface area is used in Algebra II, not a whole lot. You don't see geometric proofs in Algebra and you don't see Algebra in geometric proofs. I know you won't believe those on Yahoo! Answers but there is little link. This hurt with that and a half Algebra II I had in my sophomore and junior year. Basically the last quarter of the half of junior year was virtually review as we had to review even algebra from Algebra I for the test along with math from Algebra II. I can't tell you how many of the unpractical a pelican flies up a parabolic height and drops a fish. Can they pick the fish up before it hits the ground questions were in reviews. I shake my head both as a student who knew what they were doing but rolled their eyes and a student who saw a confusing question.

I never took chemistry just basic stuff like atoms in 8th grade and again in college when I took geology so I am bad to ask the physical science in chemistry. Physics by virtual definition is physical science with algebra.

Quote:
It is obvious you do not understand what goes on in the classroom. Often people's perception of education from a teacher's point of view is really their own perception from a student's point of view. They do not realize that they are only ONE student among many. You liked the summers off so they MUST be good. I like Ice cream but it's not good for me. Summers off aren't either. Yes, under the current system students and teachers need a long break to recharge (but certainly not a 10 week break) but if we fix the issues that result in the need to recharge we won't need the long break.
I have eyes as a student and an educator. I see students who regardless of if the school is back off break or in between breaks and students get bad.

FYI, I've shown how summers are beneficial for recovery and hobbies.

Quote:
Many jobs are much more demanding than school is yet we don't see 10 week breaks to recharge anywhere else. I don't know why we ever came up with summer break. Under an agrarian calendar kids had a break in the spring for planting season and another in the fall for the harvest with school in session for June, July and August. I'm not sure when the change was made or why they decided to keep the amount of time off. That time off was so kids could work on the farm. We don't need kids to work on the farm today.
Ah this comment of "the real world don't offer summer break." Yes but how exactly can a student get work experience if they are at school for 5 credit hours, 245 days of the year with few weeks that have open availability days and build up references and work skills outside the classroom? I benefited from summer work and I know tons of other teens who have and I encourage those who can work to do it, even a student I have in the math class I help out in.

Quote:
Today we are cramming a lot more into the school year and kids go to school more years. From my perspective we are justifying burning our kids and our teachers out during the school year with the summers off. Do burned out kids learn well? Do burned out teachers teach well? Is this really an educationally sound policy? I lose a considerable amount of my teaching time to review as things are now. Research suggests that doing away with the long summer would lessen forgetting. This isn't about what we like and dislike. It's about what's best from the perspective of education. When you can show me that summers off result in more learning I'll buy in. They result in less learning and the need to review more. It's October before I'm teaching MY content because I have to review previous content first. I have friends who teach elementary school who tell me it's more like November for them. Look at the educational impact of summers off. Once society accepts that long breaks aren't conducive to continued learning the rest will fall in place. Most of your objections are things that will work themselves out.
Burnt out kids don't learn too much, burnt out teachers don't teach well. This is true but how do we change it? There is no perfect answer. There is no free lunch with getting rid of the long breaks. You want a shorter school day but longer year, that effects the student who maybe trying to get work in sophomore to senior year, their parents who now have to change arrangements or allow them to walk two miles to and from school alone because the district can't offord busing or staff who now have a paycut and lost benefits. I don't think things will fall into place. I've seen how greedy school boards are with putting hidden raises for the board but asking to cut teachers who have been at schools for years and asking for low priced teachers.
The low-priced teachers in AZ is part of the reason for the math test that we are now using California tests while they get a new test together for Arizona math teachers because they couldn't get enough teachers to pass trigonometry and calculus (something I learned in college, not high school) parts or potential teachers that knew that BUT didn't want to teach for 35K a year.
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Old 04-17-2016, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,883,528 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunluvver2 View Post
Time with family is one of the most important things our society needs. Sadly though the FAMILY of 100 years ago no longer exists. Many families have two Mommies, two Daddies, No Daddies, Single Mommy and who know what in the future. Political Correctness has been the most effective tool in the Devil's tool box since he tempted Eve with the forbidden fruit! We need to get the Federal Government totally out of the education system. Put Local School Boards back in control.

Is it better to have people in charge of education (local school boards) that want the education of those in their charge to receive the VERY BEST education possible? OR is it better to have people in charge of education (Federal DOE) that want every child to have an "equal education"? Think about it before you decide.
Spare me the religious BS. The only bad parent is one that don't care about their child (in this case education.) They can be gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual or asexual. They could be single, married, divorced or annulled. They be natural, step or foster parent. It just matters that they are care about their child and want to do right by their child. Far too many parents don't care in the right way regardless of their status. Don't turn this into a anti-gay, pro-nuclear family rant. There's no proof that gay parents produce bad students from unbiased sources.
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Old 04-17-2016, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,525,084 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
Not so much. Say a Boy Scout camp has oh sites for 20 troop campsites with 3 "adult tents" and 7 "kids tents" that's only 21 youth per site or 210 youth who can go to camp before it is maxed out. Also we see issues of a standardized year. The next National Jamboree which sees 40k youth and adults would see a hit if they don't have enough schools off. The same goes with a traditional summer camp, what if there are no camps open during the week your district blocks off, would they then allow an exception to miss school?



You're living in a dream world if things will just magically "fall into place."



I'm lumping these two together as in some ways, they are connected. I believe in a previous post I mentioned a co-worker who left a month ago after Spring Break ended, that she did so to remove child care costs and gas used for the trips. Like me, she is one of these in danger of a paycut, should we shift from longer days with semesters for shorter days with trimesters. As I mentioned, it is basically a $53.25 drop per week and not including full-time benefits being dropped. Full-time status can be an issue it could add even more, hurting the budget. Case in point, as a child care aide on a normal week I'd work a seven-hour day on a Monday and four five-hour days on a typical Tuesday-Friday. This would be a 27 hour work week. If they do go it will turn into a 35 hour a week job and full-time and in turn raise costs. This may encourage more parents to change logic and perhaps become stay-at-home parents. At the same time, paraprofessionals and teaching assistants would drop down in hours because isn't a need so they may have to decrease the full-time cut off which would in-turn increase payroll expenses while cutting pay.

As with most things in economics, most people realize what happens on their plate. Home economics is important to most. When economy hits home, it's an issue. A few reasons my district was able to pass the override was because of the state tying up a settlement because "the state couldn't pay it" causing such programs as all-day kindergarten and bus routes to be cut. At the begining of the school year, my district was lambasted by some parents on the news for "forcing kids to now walk in heat and dangerous neighborhoods to school" (Parents angry over Dysart school bus route changes - ABC15 Arizona, Dysart district bus-route changes draw some parents.) When parents see things cut that they use, typically if they were for the issue, they are now against it. No matter the emotional appeal you can make with semesters to trimesters, the economics is key.



To the underlined part, trimesters are a bit longer than summer break coming in at another month to a month and a half longer and that is NOT including you put a vacation for a week or two between terms. Plus, you have new knowledge muddying up the water. Say from my previous example you take Algebra 1, Geology, English 9-1 and then the next term they take World History 1, Biology and Creative Writing, followed by Algebra 2, English 9-2 and World History 2 the last term in 9th grade. So depending on your set up, that can be anywhere from 16 weeks (4 months) to possibly 20 weeks (5 months) in between using Algebra 1 knowledge base for Algebra 2. By comparison, summer is about 10 weeks with limited knowledge and memory creation. So perhaps a summer is better for students even if you don't see it.

I was reading an article from Slate asking Do Kids Need a Summer Vacation? for information on the length and an interesting note is that Brooklyn had students goto school for a half year even though it was mostly open year round prior to mandatory education.

Imagine trying to propose people paying for a school that you only have most students going six months out of a 245 day school year. You can just imagine the response today if they had this response...


From another article by Benjamin Studebaker, a longer school year could hinder creativity. Me, I am very creative and in a way it helps me with working with my students. I also notice how breaks help them (albeit it can be hard reigning them back in.)


You know how much Geometry other than area, volume, surface area is used in Algebra II, not a whole lot. You don't see geometric proofs in Algebra and you don't see Algebra in geometric proofs. I know you won't believe those on Yahoo! Answers but there is little link. This hurt with that and a half Algebra II I had in my sophomore and junior year. Basically the last quarter of the half of junior year was virtually review as we had to review even algebra from Algebra I for the test along with math from Algebra II. I can't tell you how many of the unpractical a pelican flies up a parabolic height and drops a fish. Can they pick the fish up before it hits the ground questions were in reviews. I shake my head both as a student who knew what they were doing but rolled their eyes and a student who saw a confusing question.

I never took chemistry just basic stuff like atoms in 8th grade and again in college when I took geology so I am bad to ask the physical science in chemistry. Physics by virtual definition is physical science with algebra.



I have eyes as a student and an educator. I see students who regardless of if the school is back off break or in between breaks and students get bad.

FYI, I've shown how summers are beneficial for recovery and hobbies.



Ah this comment of "the real world don't offer summer break." Yes but how exactly can a student get work experience if they are at school for 5 credit hours, 245 days of the year with few weeks that have open availability days and build up references and work skills outside the classroom? I benefited from summer work and I know tons of other teens who have and I encourage those who can work to do it, even a student I have in the math class I help out in.



Burnt out kids don't learn too much, burnt out teachers don't teach well. This is true but how do we change it? There is no perfect answer. There is no free lunch with getting rid of the long breaks. You want a shorter school day but longer year, that effects the student who maybe trying to get work in sophomore to senior year, their parents who now have to change arrangements or allow them to walk two miles to and from school alone because the district can't offord busing or staff who now have a paycut and lost benefits. I don't think things will fall into place. I've seen how greedy school boards are with putting hidden raises for the board but asking to cut teachers who have been at schools for years and asking for low priced teachers.
The low-priced teachers in AZ is part of the reason for the math test that we are now using California tests while they get a new test together for Arizona math teachers because they couldn't get enough teachers to pass trigonometry and calculus (something I learned in college, not high school) parts or potential teachers that knew that BUT didn't want to teach for 35K a year.

Decisions about education should be made for educational reasons. Shortening the school day and inserting sanity into the school year would actually make it easier for kids to work. I don't know where you are but here kids don't get summer jobs. They get part time jobs that they work all year long.


Yes, the real world doesn't (not don't.) burn people out to the point they need a long break to recover. That is a valid point. Why are we doing this in education if the real world doesn't do it? What's the point of cramming so much education into a short year and burning kids out? Nowhere but high school will you be required to take 6 or 7 classes at a time and sit in class for 7 hours a day. Kids don't do it in college and the work world doesn't try to cram 12 months of work into 10 months either. Why are we doing it to our kids in school?


As I said and you ignored trimesters can be set up so that sequential classes are in sequential trimesters so it's not necessary to have a long break between one class and the next like you WILL with a long summer break. Still funny that you worry about a trimester gap that might happen here and there but not the summer forgetting gap that happens in ALL subjects every year. For some reason THAT is ok.


Nope I'm not living a dream. Necessity is the mother of invention. We have a way of figuring things out when we have no choice. In my school the only employees who would work a longer year would be the teachers, the bus drivers (who now work a split day) and the lunch room workers. Our custodians, administrators and secretaries already work a year round schedule and an 8 hour day. They're there before kids get there and there after kids are gone. Yes, teacher salaries would have to be adjusted to make up for the fact we can't get summer jobs anymore and you'd be paying your bus drivers and lunch personnel more days per year but that's about it.


Um, geometry isn't just about basic shapes. It's about problem solving. Geometric shapes are just the way we do the problem solving. Content wise, what you see from geometry in Algebra II is right triangle trigonometry. 1/4th of my geometry curriculum is dedicated to right triangles and an introduction to trig. Algebra II uses a lot of trig. It also uses the problem solving strategies learned in geometry. Geometry is puzzles. It's thinking rather than memorizing algorithms.

Sorry but I don't have more time for this today. I have to get my grades done.
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Old 04-18-2016, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,883,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Decisions about education should be made for educational reasons.
Just because something should be done, don't mean it does. If you don't realize it, you might have a problem with being realistic. The answers you ask for to solve problems are not what parents, educators and other staff want. Why do they have to "hush up" just because it isn't an educational reason.

Quote:
Shortening the school day and inserting sanity into the school year would actually make it easier for kids to work.
Today was our school's short day at six 40 minute "hours", by the time the classes I help with hit their strides on days like this whether special or general ed, the students see it is 35 minutes into the class and shut off to get ready for the break. So much for shorter days being better, well besides for saving money...

Quote:
I don't know where you are but here kids don't get summer jobs. They get part time jobs that they work all year long.
Um, it's still normal. If it didn't would you see news articles about summer employment or perhaps job fairs towards the end of the year?
12 Great Summer Jobs for High School Students
20 summer job ideas for high school and college students - AOL
http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/20...they-want-one/

Quote:
Yes, the real world doesn't (not don't.) burn people out to the point they need a long break to recover. That is a valid point. Why are we doing this in education if the real world doesn't do it?
This is laughable. So you mean to tell me people don't burn out and retire themselves from jobs they worked at for some 5/10/20/30/40 years? I've heard about this time and time again, even my mother did this.

Quote:
What's the point of cramming so much education into a short year and burning kids out? Nowhere but high school will you be required to take 6 or 7 classes at a time and sit in class for 7 hours a day. Kids don't do it in college and the work world doesn't try to cram 12 months of work into 10 months either. Why are we doing it to our kids in school?
This too is laughable. A LOT of people state that high school and college are far too unlike the real world. This is a LOT of education reform posts and threads, even this one. You may not be taking 6 or 7 college classes but college learning is a lot more out of out of school learning. Also how long are you expected to be at work, at the LEAST 6/7 hours each day. So one can argue that reducing the day to 5 hours is some coddling that they wouldn't get in the workplace. It either is the workplace or it isn't, you can't have it be when you want it to be but not when it is convenient.

Also I could have sworn your ideal program isn't cramming 12 months into 4 months, maybe 8 depending on length?

Quote:
As I said and you ignored trimesters can be set up so that sequential classes are in sequential trimesters so it's not necessary to have a long break between one class and the next like you WILL with a long summer break. Still funny that you worry about a trimester gap that might happen here and there but not the summer forgetting gap that happens in ALL subjects every year. For some reason THAT is ok.
They can be but it not set in stone. The same can happen in college too, it all depends on availability. I nearly had this senior year with my capstone when a professor went on sabbatical. Say I want to take Algebra 1 and then Algebra 2 the next, I may get blocked out. Though I may have a bigger chance if I wanted to retake Algebra 2 and just about all Algebra 1 students passed.

Quote:
Nope I'm not living a dream. Necessity is the mother of invention. We have a way of figuring things out when we have no choice. In my school the only employees who would work a longer year would be the teachers, the bus drivers (who now work a split day) and the lunch room workers. Our custodians, administrators and secretaries already work a year round schedule and an 8 hour day. They're there before kids get there and there after kids are gone. Yes, teacher salaries would have to be adjusted to make up for the fact we can't get summer jobs anymore and you'd be paying your bus drivers and lunch personnel more days per year but that's about it.
OK so say your district has oh say 50 teachers per school (a softball number) as well as 20 bus routes (in general) and need 10 cafeteria workers per school and you have 12 schools, that's oh 740 raises that need to happen (though lunch workers and bus driving is more or less a hour increase than a wage increase.) The fact is districts would need more money in most cases despite "saving" elsewhere. Where do they come up with this money? Raise taxes, you bet.

Quote:
Um, geometry isn't just about basic shapes. It's about problem solving. Geometric shapes are just the way we do the problem solving. Content wise, what you see from geometry in Algebra II is right triangle trigonometry. 1/4th of my geometry curriculum is dedicated to right triangles and an introduction to trig. Algebra II uses a lot of trig. It also uses the problem solving strategies learned in geometry. Geometry is puzzles. It's thinking rather than memorizing algorithms.
So, anything is problem solving. Look at case studies in business or history classes for instance. There's no math in there. Not that I am trying to diminish geometry but there's problem solving to go around in subjects. What about those work backwards math problems for that matter?

Quote:
Sorry but I don't have more time for this today. I have to get my grades done.
Neither did I, doctor's appointment after my school day was done.
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:36 PM
 
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If we could remove the brain dead teachers from the schools, the kids might have half a chance.
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Old 04-22-2016, 06:39 PM
 
Location: A coal patch in Pennsyltucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madison999 View Post
If we could remove the brain dead teachers from the schools, the kids might have half a chance.
You sound like a middle school student who got detention for mouthing off to your teacher.
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Old 04-22-2016, 07:12 PM
 
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Never got detention, but looking back, I may as well have.
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Old 04-23-2016, 02:48 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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There are some students who can't seem to do better than Cs and Ds no matter who their teachers are.

That's the harsh reality that no one wants to talk about.
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Old 04-23-2016, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
There are some students who can't seem to do better than Cs and Ds no matter who their teachers are.

That's the harsh reality that no one wants to talk about.
Yup. That is one of the issues with education in this country. The only way I know to address this would be with tracking and that is something we will not allow as we live under the delusion that ALL students have the same capability and ALL students can go to college. All that is happening is education is being dummied down to allow all students to pass and graduate both in k-12 AND in college.
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