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I don't think it makes a lot of sense to compare the overall rankings between countries when the U.S. is such a racially diverse country and we know that there are significant differences in PISA scores between different racial groups.
It makes much more sense (to me anyway) to compare the scores of white Americans to whites in other countries, Asian Americans to Asians in other countries, Hispanic Americans to Hispanics in other countries, black Americans to blacks in other countries, et cetera.
In all of these categories, the U.S. does pretty well. In fact, black Americans score higher than any country with a majority black population. And Hispanic Americans score higher than any country with a majority Hispanic/latino population, as far as I can tell. This suggests to me that black Americans and Hispanic Americans actually have far better educational opportunities and support in the U.S. than their counterparts have in most other countries.
You are correct that black Americans and Hispanic Americans have far better educational opportunities and support in the US than their counterparts have in most other countries.
It will all be for nothing though if all (the rest) of the high tech jobs move to East Asia for their highly trained workforce, and all of our black Americans, Hispanic Americans, and white Americans are sitting around unemployed. East Asia is playing the long game, and they are winning.
1. When I read stuff like that, I lose interest quite quickly. That simply isn't true. I'm fine with multi-grade classes so a kid who needs help could drop down a level in math, go up a level in something else, etc.
2. That would infringe on people's rights a little too much for me. Mind you, I'm one of the few on here who argues for more education for all, but that's simply not the way to do it.
Agreed. Another thing that all of the high performing countries have in common is a vocational high school track, usually starting in sophomore or junior year. And their vocational schools are generally high quality and not "second tier" at all. I think we need to get back to that here, instead of forcing everyone onto a college only track, we need to raise the quality of our vocational track so that it's just as good.
It will all be for nothing though if all (the rest) of the high tech jobs move to East Asia for their highly trained workforce, and all of our black Americans, Hispanic Americans, and white Americans are sitting around unemployed. East Asia is playing the long game, and they are winning.
Agreed. Another thing that all of the high performing countries have in common is a vocational high school track, usually starting in sophomore or junior year. And their vocational schools are generally high quality and not "second tier" at all. I think we need to get back to that here, instead of forcing everyone onto a college only track, we need to raise the quality of our vocational track so that it's just as good.
My friend, if I read that ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to scream so loud you'll hear me down in Alabama (from Colorado)! Everyone is not on a college only track. Now, this always brings posts about how I don't know what's happening in other states, blah, blah, but in Colorado, districts have graduation requirements that can be met a variety of ways. For example, in my district, the math requirement is two years of math, of which one course must be Algebra I or higher. BVSD Graduation Requirements My district also has a Vo-tech program. These requirements apply to Vo-tech students as well.
In many European countries, the tracking starts well before sophomore year. In Germany, it starts in about 6th grade, also fairly early in France. I have problems with deciding a person's future at that young an age. I should say that most of these European countries are becoming more, rather than less, flexible.
2. That would infringe on people's rights a little too much for me. Mind you, I'm one of the few on here who argues for more education for all, but that's simply not the way to do it.
Because it's not the way it's done? It would be too different? Just because the way it's done doesn't work, is no reason to do it differently?
Even if we did the vocational school thing, why couldn't we require fluency in 5th grade math before vocational school?
Infringing on people's rights depends on what rights they have. If they have a right to be uneducated, then why do we fret over the average person's lack of a good education?
My friend, if I read that ONE MORE TIME, I'm going to scream so loud you'll hear me down in Alabama (from Colorado)! Everyone is not on a college only track. Now, this always brings posts about how I don't know what's happening in other states, blah, blah, but in Colorado, districts have graduation requirements that can be met a variety of ways. For example, in my district, the math requirement is two years of math, of which one course must be Algebra I or higher. BVSD Graduation Requirements My district also has a Vo-tech program. These requirements apply to Vo-tech students as well.
Lol! I know the Colorado educational system is quite good. I know I read somewhere it's one of the best states for education in the country. What I need is for Alabama to get their act together and to be as good as Colorado! We have one of the better districts in the state, and here the only kids who go to the vo-tech school are the discipline problems. There is a very high stigma attached to any student who goes there. I know we HAVE vo-tech, but it could be so much better, you know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
In many European countries, the tracking starts well before sophomore year. In Germany, it starts in about 6th grade, also fairly early in France. I have problems with deciding a person's future at that young an age. I should say that most of these European countries are becoming more, rather than less, flexible.
I agree with this. I remember reading about a study that said that tracking too early can be more detrimental than not tracking at all.
Lol! I know the Colorado educational system is quite good. I know I read somewhere it's one of the best states for education in the country. What I need is for Alabama to get their act together and to be as good as Colorado! We have one of the better districts in the state, and here the only kids who go to the vo-tech school are the discipline problems. There is a very high stigma attached to any student who goes there. I know we HAVE vo-tech, but it could be so much better, you know?
Thanks for the kind words about Colorado's ed system. It usually gets a lot of flack b/c it is in the lower rankings in per-pupil spending. But yeah, I've seen it ranked fairly high in results, as well, and my kids felt well-prepared for college. One even went to college in that supposed educational mecca, Minnesota and did very well. She graduated "something c*u*m laude", I can't remember what now.
My point is, the Vo-tech kids do have to meet the minimum graduation requirements. Not everyone is pushed into a "college for all". Even kids who don't go to Vo-tech but aren't planning college have to meet the minimum requirements.
DH said when he was in HS the "problem kids" were sent to "Tech High". This was many years ago (his 50 year reunion is this year) in Omaha, NE.
DH said when he was in HS the "problem kids" were sent to "Tech High". This was many years ago (his 50 year reunion is this year) in Omaha, NE.
Yep, that's exactly how it is here. I think I knew of a few kids who went there after getting expelled from our high school for drugs and things. That was in the 90's.
Lol! I know the Colorado educational system is quite good. I know I read somewhere it's one of the best states for education in the country. What I need is for Alabama to get their act together and to be as good as Colorado! We have one of the better districts in the state, and here the only kids who go to the vo-tech school are the discipline problems. There is a very high stigma attached to any student who goes there. I know we HAVE vo-tech, but it could be so much better, you know?
I agree with this. I remember reading about a study that said that tracking too early can be more detrimental than not tracking at all.
I can fix every school system in the US for $500K from each. They will have to contractually agree to do my program for 6/7 years with no change or questions.
It's an easy fix. Go back to homogeneous grouping. In all middle/high school subjects. That's it. Start identifying in 3rd grade.
Just like elementary school has Red, Silver, Blue and Giraffe reading groups extend that to middle and high school based on grade level reading.
Now, what will happen is that some schools will have zero kids, or an extremely small number, in the Honors group (College Prep). Which is to be expected when the average reading level for an incoming 9th grader is 4th grade in a lot of systems.
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We have one of the better districts in the state, and here the only kids who go to the vo-tech school are the discipline problems. There is a very high stigma attached to any student who goes there. I know we HAVE vo-tech, but it could be so much better, you know?
