Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I can fix every school system in the US for $500K from each. They will have to contractually agree to do my program for 6/7 years with no change or questions.
It's an easy fix. Go back to homogeneous grouping. In all middle/high school subjects. That's it. Start identifying in 3rd grade.
Just like elementary school has Red, Silver, Blue and Giraffe reading groups extend that to middle and high school based on grade level reading.
Now, what will happen is that some schools will have zero kids, or an extremely small number, in the Honors group (College Prep). Which is to be expected when the average reading level for an incoming 9th grader is 4th grade in a lot of systems.
International studies have shown that tracking before age 16 actually lowers the average academic performance of students from that country. Tracking after 16, with all tracks being of similar quality, just with different career choices, has been correlated with more positive outcomes.
International studies have shown that tracking before age 16 actually lowers the average academic performance of students from that country. Tracking after 16, with all tracks being of similar quality, just with different career choices, has been correlated with more positive outcomes.
when you say" tracking" do you actually mean grouping/streaming, or do you simply mean tracking (i.e. following their progress but not separating them into groups)
International studies have shown that tracking before age 16 actually lowers the average academic performance of students from that country. Tracking after 16, with all tracks being of similar quality, just with different career choices, has been correlated with more positive outcomes.
It's not tracking, it's heterogeneous grouping. I'm not talking career tracks but academic tracks (not necessarily college prep, though).
International studies have shown that tracking before age 16 actually lowers the average academic performance of students from that country. Tracking after 16, with all tracks being of similar quality, just with different career choices, has been correlated with more positive outcomes.
In the studies I've read streaming or grouping tends to helps already-bright pupils do even better, but everyone else does worse. Which could be consistent with your assertion that the average drops (depending on the numbers).
when you say" tracking" do you actually mean grouping/streaming, or do you simply mean tracking (i.e. following their progress but not separating them into groups)
It's not tracking, it's heterogeneous grouping. I'm not talking career tracks but academic tracks (not necessarily college prep, though).
And what has not tracking gotten us?
I know what you're saying. What I'm saying is that internationally, the countries that track early (or heterogeneously group according to academic ability early) tend to do more poorly, on average, in critical thinking and problem solving tests such as the PISA, and countries that have career oriented tracks starting around age 16 tend to do better, on average, on these tests.
I'm sorry, but the data says that lack of academic tracking at age 10 is not the problem. Good idea, just not the right one.
In the studies I've read streaming or grouping tends to helps already-bright pupils do even better, but everyone else does worse. Which could be consistent with your assertion that the average drops (depending on the numbers).
Yup this. The top goes up a bit, but the bottom completely drops out, which lowers the average.
Yup this. The top goes up a bit, but the bottom completely drops out, which lowers the average.
Then just don't count the drop outs, that's what has gotten us to this, we actually started to count the kids who used to drop out and punish schools if they do.
Look, there's not one size fits all but, since I taught for 30+ years with both tracking and non-tracking classes, in a school system which allows just about any kid to take AP classes and where Guidance Counselors put non-achievers into advanced classes to see if they'll wake up, I'll take going back to tracking.
There's also a lot more involved. A really fascinating factoid the College Board released a few years ago about SAT scores, and I'd link it if I could find it, is that when SAT scores are broken out by race and socio-economic class that the highest socio-economic class Black students score only a few (around 10 combined) points higher than the White students from the lowest socio-economic class.
You should have seen the emails and releases those of us involved in testing got from them.
In the studies I've read streaming or grouping tends to helps already-bright pupils do even better, but everyone else does worse. Which could be consistent with your assertion that the average drops (depending on the numbers).
This makes sense because in a non tracked system 80% of a teacher's effort goes to the bottom of the class. There are more gains to be made there than there are by working with the top of the class if you just want to look at the average. We need to keep in mind that those top kids are the ones who will lead the country in the future. Favoring someone who probably won't even go to college over them all for the sake of a higher average seems like we're shooting ourselves in the foot. Of course the bottom does better when we put everyone in the same class because the classes have to be catered to them. We have to push them forward to get the class to go forward.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The top goes up a bit, but the bottom completely drops out, which lowers the average.
