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Then I believe we have another issue in this country which came to light w/ the VT shootings. In this case we had a young person whose parents came to this country and plopped their kid into the school system but they themselves never assimilated to living here. Even after living here as long as they did they still needed a translator when this incident happened. Of course this kid thru the years felt DIFFERENT, alone, isolated. It is bad enough that he probably already had some form of depression that needed to be treated but when you throw in the family living in a way as to isolate them it just makes it worse. Chances are this person going thru school never had the typical birthday party or friends over or invited himself to others get togethers. Probably did not attend the school dances and their parents probably hardly went to ANY school function.
This is true and a very interesting theory. I actually worked at the high school where the Virginia Tech shooter attended. I did not know him personally but knew many that did. He had severe mental problems, as we would expect anyone who did something like this to have, but your point is an interesting one about students with immigrant parents and the struggles they face.
Sadly, the way the laws are as they pertain to schools and the information that they can and can not release, often hands are tied. I know that was a big issue with the VT shooter, the question as to why more information was not released from the high school. Legally, it can not be.
Although this is OT and would make for an interesting new thread, the issue of immigrants not assimilating into the communities is a big one. When I worked in another school in the same county, I have several high school students who were born in the United States yet their parents spoke NO English! HELLO, you have been living here for 17 years and can not speak the language!? I had one student whose mother used to keep him home when she needed to run errands or have work done in the home, so he could translate for her. It is crazy. Of course our country is making it way too easy for this to continue but I won't go too far into that because it is OT too but, for example, I called my cell phone company the other day and it said, 'Press 1 for English'. Ummmmm, this is American, I should not have to press 1 for English!!
You are right about helping those lonely kids. I work FT but I have never missed a field trip since my son started school and volunteer at the school as much as I can. Not to mention my son plays basketball, baseball, and football so we know A LOT of kids! So many of them attach themselves to my husband or me and it breaks my heart. They just want someone to tell them they matter or that they are doing well too. One little girl in his class runs up and hugs me every time I come in the room. Two other girls got moved to another class after the first field trip but they have to give me a hug too when they see me. I had to tell their teacher it was ok b/c she thought I didn't know them. I hate seeing these children live like they do. My son gets jealous and I just tell him that he has us all the time and the attention these kids get from us might be all they get for a while. I think he is starting to get it now though. A little girl started in his class right before Christmas and I was up at the school for a monthly thing I head up so I asked his teacher about her b/c I knew she was new. She told me she was living with a foster family and her story was not a good one. She didn't expand and I didn't ask. I got teary eyed just thinking about it. Such a sweet little girl but timid as can be. She told my son a couple weeks ago that she lived with the foster family b/c both her parents hurt her and her sisters so they took them away. DS came home and told me he always knew he was lucky to have us but now he really sees how good he has it. I'd love to start a mentor program at the school. I think it would help so much. I just don't know where to start or if I'd have the time with my job. I'll have to look into it. Sorry to get off topic but maybe if we start young we can save some kids from growing up with the thoughts that lead to such senseless and horrible actions.
The shooters felt bullied, rejected, and ostracized in over 70% of the 37 school shootings examined by the Secret Service.
It is a problem that some kids knew about these shootings ahead of time, but did nothing about it. But this just ties in with the same problem of 'bystanders' not doing anything to prevent the bullying they had observed in the first place.
The problem is the climate in our schools. It seems to be perfectly acceptable to denigrate others who are different.
For example - in another thread, many of the same posters on this thread have discussed how gifted students are frequently denigrated by educators, their peers, and even other students' parents. I quoted a parent who stated that she must edit herself and cloak her and her daughter's identity in order to avoid making others uncomfortable. This is a protective mechanism that many gifted students and their families must use to avoid the scorn of others. But at what cost? One's identity? One's feeling of self-worth within the context of our society? One's sense of belonging in that society? These are hard questions.
Add to the bullying problem the fact that many, many educators discourage students from reporting problems with others because they come down so hard on what they perceive to be *tattling*.
You have the perfect storm.
That sounds very logical, but then I look back to schooling in the 50's, 60's, and 70's and the explanation falls apart for me.
In those decades kids were made fun of for being different, for being nerds, for being retarded, for being <insert the difference>... In those decades kids were not tolerant, they didn't care about others self esteem, hazing was an accepted part of clubs and sports.
Based on what you outlined I would have expected a much higher incident of these horrific actions in those decades as opposed to today.
I will make this short...since the few posters seem to be mothers.
We need to allow these students to carry concealed on campus. Criminals do not obey the laws. A sign would not have saved any of these people, but a person who legally had a gun, could have.
....coming from a 25 year old college student, from Cali, who can't carry ANYWHERE
I will make this short...since the few posters seem to be mothers.
We need to allow these students to carry concealed on campus. Criminals do not obey the laws. A sign would not have saved any of these people, but a person who legally had a gun, could have.
....coming from a 25 year old college student, from Cali, who can't carry ANYWHERE
*quietly high-fives*
Concealed weapon permit will be mine May 27th. And I will not carry on campus, but it will be in my vehicle.
Now, I'm not entirely sure that students should be allowed to carry on campus. I live in MT, where guns outnumber people 3 to 1.
I however do believe that professors that are willing and able, should be allowed to as those in a position of authority to carry. Provided they pass a stricter testing/check than the concealed weapon permit.
And, in regards to the 50s, etc. argument... Emotional abuse wasn't referred to as abuse. We weren't aware of the issues it causes, and I think with that awareness, we've opened new doors that might have been better left closed.
Also, you may have been made fun of, being a 'nerd'. But so were 4 other guys, and you were all 'nerds' together.
These people don't belong to a single group, they have no one to turn to, no way to let out their frustration, etc.
That sounds very logical, but then I look back to schooling in the 50's, 60's, and 70's and the explanation falls apart for me.
In those decades kids were made fun of for being different, for being nerds, for being retarded, for being <insert the difference>... In those decades kids were not tolerant, they didn't care about others self esteem, hazing was an accepted part of clubs and sports.
Based on what you outlined I would have expected a much higher incident of these horrific actions in those decades as opposed to today.
The 50's, 60's and 70's were much better decades in which to be a bright student. Sputnik spurred an interest in nurturing these kids in American schools, so they did feel valued and accepted by society even if the random schoolmate made fun of them for being nerds.
Beginning in the 80's, that was no longer true. Educators and other adults began to openly resent and scorn them.
When do you ever see "My kid can beat up your developmentally disabled student" bumper stickers? You don't. Smart kids are the only ones it is acceptable to openly hate.
Concealed weapon permit will be mine May 27th. And I will not carry on campus, but it will be in my vehicle.
Now, I'm not entirely sure that students should be allowed to carry on campus. I live in MT, where guns outnumber people 3 to 1.
I however do believe that professors that are willing and able, should be allowed to as those in a position of authority to carry. Provided they pass a stricter testing/check than the concealed weapon permit.
And, in regards to the 50s, etc. argument... Emotional abuse wasn't referred to as abuse. We weren't aware of the issues it causes, and I think with that awareness, we've opened new doors that might have been better left closed.
Also, you may have been made fun of, being a 'nerd'. But so were 4 other guys, and you were all 'nerds' together.
These people don't belong to a single group, they have no one to turn to, no way to let out their frustration, etc.
First, I think there is strong argument for the conceal carry... I live close to where the VonMaur mass shooting was a few months ago and there was a lot of positive discussion about the benefit of conceal carry.
On the part about people not being in a single group in the 50's, 60's, 70's, I would have to disagree. I think those decades had many people that were teased and made fun of that resulted in lots of lonliness and people being off by themselves - I can think of many just from my own growing up... so I'll stand by my original thoughts.
I am not really on board with the concealed carry argument but I guess I see your point, however that debate is probably for another forum!
However, the majority of school shootings have happened in high schools and I hope we can all agree that guns in high schools, carried by anyone, is a terrible idea. I actually worked with a guy who had a gun in his car because he was a hunter and the school found out and he was fired. It is not a safe place to carry a gun, no matter what kind of license you have or who you are.
Anyways, the real issue lies with why this is happening. These kids need help and they are not getting it.
Kids are so different these days and are facing so many different issues, that is my opinion as a guidance counselor who works with kids everyday. It is hard to put my finger on exactly what is different but it is.
I agree with PP who said we need to start young, elementary school and teach these kids the right way to treat others and the right way to deal with problems. I also hope, as I have spent much of my career at the high school level, that teachers and counselors in the elementary and middle schools really try to help kids in need and be over vigilant in diagnosing and recognizing issues. I have worked with kids so emotionally disturbed it is not even funny, and they reach their Junior and Senior years before being labeled and getting services. That is crazy. Although, some mental illnesses do surface at a later age, there probably were some warning signs earlier.
We can no longer say 'Kids will be kids' when they do something wrong or troubling.
.... These kids need help and they are not getting it.
Kids are so different these days and are facing so many different issues, that is my opinion as a guidance counselor who works with kids everyday. It is hard to put my finger on exactly what is different but it is.
I agree with PP who said we need to start young, elementary school and teach these kids the right way to treat others and the right way to deal with problems. I also hope, as I have spent much of my career at the high school level, that teachers and counselors in the elementary and middle schools really try to help kids in need and be over vigilant in diagnosing and recognizing issues. I have worked with kids so emotionally disturbed it is not even funny, and they reach their Junior and Senior years before being labeled and getting services. That is crazy. Although, some mental illnesses do surface at a later age, there probably were some warning signs earlier.
We can no longer say 'Kids will be kids' when they do something wrong or troubling.
But based on what you say, I still don't understand why we weren't flooded with these mass shootings in the 50's, 60's, and 70's... those weren't eras of providing tons of mental health intervention, so what made those eras different?
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