Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You say you taught and were a vice principal in two states, but this sounds suspicious. I can't believe someone would make so many rude comments such as some of the ones I bolded. Who would say that public schools are "trash?" You say you were a PE teacher and administrator in two states but how many public schools do you have actual experience with? There are approximately 13,800 public school districts in the United States. They range from one building districts to the New York City school district with almost a million students. Yet you lump them all together.
As a PE teacher, how much did you know about what was being taught in other classes such as math and science? You give no actual, credible reasons why public schools are "trash." What do you suggest as an alternative? You say your children did not go to public schools, where did they go?
Earlier in this thread, I gave reasons for the problems in education. None of my reasons are similar to your bashing of public schools. This country is not going to eliminate public schools, but needs to continue to try to reform schools and get the politics out of schools. I also don't believe "the LGBTQ community pumps in millions of dollars into education," for the simple reason, why would they?
I found his comments to be rude and probably politically motivated. He's saying public schools are horrible...yet he was supposedly a leader in a public school...well, okay.
But you make a very good point. There are wonderful schools and school districts in this country and there are terrible schools and school districts in this country. I have sometimes wondered if part of the problem is that they are the governmental level that has the most public input.
I found his comments to be rude and probably politically motivated. He's saying public schools are horrible...yet he was supposedly a leader in a public school...well, okay.
But you make a very good point. There are wonderful schools and school districts in this country and there are terrible schools and school districts in this country. I have sometimes wondered if part of the problem is that they are the governmental level that has the most public input.
I find that par for the course on this forum. We have lots of politically motivated posters who either completely distrust our public services or want to see them greatly reduced in size and scope. And the unfortunate coincidence is that most of them claim to have earned their livings over the course of most of their lives through these same public agencies. We have lots of small government/anti-public services folks who literally collect paychecks from those governmental agencies.
Well earlier in the thread I stated one possible way to gauge whether the states public education is a failure or not is to make comparisons between it & other states & societies that public education systems.
I guess another way is to look at test scores over time (though I am well aware things are sometimes graded on a "curve", still better than nuthin').
Retaliation for something like a political interpretation would run afoul of a lot of ethics codes. Against academic freedom and all that.
I'm curious what the "several things" were?
My experience is that people can have the weirdest bugbears and what they complain about often doesn't make sense to me. I'll say things that *I* think are flaming liberal or staunchly conservative (grossly out of character for me) and no one seems to care. But some piece of art or scientific illustration that shows a nude body will get people all in a tither.
Ethics codes? There are comments in this thread, including from some in education, who state that exact fear as the reason they don't say anything.
As for me. I'm an adult. I don't have to agree with the teacher, nor obey quietly like a good little boy just because the principal tells me to. But a little kid isn't an adult. They HAVE to listen to the teacher. They HAVE to obey the teacher. They HAVE to sit quietly all afternoon, even if they are sitting there with a broken bone. When your third grader comes home crying because they were punished because daddy corrected an obvious typo on the worksheet, you soon realize that while you, an adult, can easily deal with it, a child quickly becomes collateral damage.
So you keep quiet. Try to teach your children as best you can at home to have a much wider world view and greater understanding than the limited vision called the American public school. Keep your eye on the prize -- graduation and a diploma.
Now my kids are graduated. I don't care about my "permanent record." I do care about the quality of education we provide to our children. So I can fight for someone else's kids; someone who can't speak up for fear of educational retaliation.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,726 posts, read 58,079,686 times
Reputation: 46195
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert
Well earlier in the thread I stated one possible way to gauge whether the states public education is a failure or not is to make comparisons between it & other states & societies that public education systems.
..
Yes, please... use other developed countries as an EDU comparison
Chose the winners to come to USA and replace our system, our ENTIRE system. Not with theirs, but a better one, that would work excellent for the USA!
Very possible, very inexpensive, very effective, very quick (as in less time than Covid shut USA edu down).
Ethics codes? There are comments in this thread, including from some in education, who state that exact fear as the reason they don't say anything.
As for me. I'm an adult. I don't have to agree with the teacher, nor obey quietly like a good little boy just because the principal tells me to. But a little kid isn't an adult. They HAVE to listen to the teacher. They HAVE to obey the teacher. They HAVE to sit quietly all afternoon, even if they are sitting there with a broken bone. When your third grader comes home crying because they were punished because daddy corrected an obvious typo on the worksheet, you soon realize that while you, an adult, can easily deal with it, a child quickly becomes collateral damage.
So you keep quiet. Try to teach your children as best you can at home to have a much wider world view and greater understanding than the limited vision called the American public school. Keep your eye on the prize -- graduation and a diploma.
Now my kids are graduated. I don't care about my "permanent record." I do care about the quality of education we provide to our children. So I can fight for someone else's kids; someone who can't speak up for fear of educational retaliation.
Very well said. Any changes that happen will not benefit yourself or your children, but may benefit future children. So, it is likely not worth making an enemy.
You know in my years at college, there was only one instance where a professor permeated the curriculum with his personal politics, and it was right-winger. The course was 'School Finance' in the Administration & Curriculum doctoral program. Unfortunately, the professor had never worked in a public school AND -- would you believe it -- in 15 weeks never mentioned schools once. Do you know what we did for 15 weeks -- we listened to lectures about one topic -- Reagonomics. I guess we were being indoctrinated. In fact, I'm sure of it.
I'm wondering, did anyone complain at any point during or after the course, that the scheduled subject matter of the course was never broached? Did no one inform the department chair of what was going on? How could you (and your fellow students) sit through an entire course that cheated you of your time and the learning you'd need to practice the profession you were training for?
I'm sure the Chair of the Education Dept. (or School of...) and your doctoral program supervisor/s would have been very interested to know, that the course topic was never taught or even mentioned. It sounds like they hired a temporary instructor from the Economics Dept., because they were short a faculty member.
Ethics codes? There are comments in this thread, including from some in education, who state that exact fear as the reason they don't say anything.
As for me. I'm an adult. I don't have to agree with the teacher, nor obey quietly like a good little boy just because the principal tells me to. But a little kid isn't an adult. They HAVE to listen to the teacher. They HAVE to obey the teacher. They HAVE to sit quietly all afternoon, even if they are sitting there with a broken bone. When your third grader comes home crying because they were punished because daddy corrected an obvious typo on the worksheet, you soon realize that while you, an adult, can easily deal with it, a child quickly becomes collateral damage.
So you keep quiet. Try to teach your children as best you can at home to have a much wider world view and greater understanding than the limited vision called the American public school. Keep your eye on the prize -- graduation and a diploma.
Now my kids are graduated. I don't care about my "permanent record." I do care about the quality of education we provide to our children. So I can fight for someone else's kids; someone who can't speak up for fear of educational retaliation.
The teacher runs the class, yes. But if a student is retaliated against just for exercising academic freedom, that can be an ethics violation and there is a case to get something in return. E.g., I've seen that kind of thing result in a refund of tuition at the college level.
What I've discovered is that, at the end of the day, schools run a lot like companies or corporations. There's a bureaucratic lingo and entrenched culture that they have which built up over time, and will not just go away because one person complains.
Also at the end of the day, a teacher is just the hired help, and like all workers some are good and some are not so good. Going off on them doesn't necessarily do much.
Yes, please... use other developed countries as an EDU comparison
Chose the winners to come to USA and replace our system, our ENTIRE system. Not with theirs, but a better one, that would work excellent for the USA!
Very possible, very inexpensive, very effective, very quick (as in less time than Covid shut USA edu down).
Well aren't the states supposed to be laboratories of democracy?
I'm wondering, did anyone complain at any point during or after the course, that the scheduled subject matter of the course was never broached? Did no one inform the department chair of what was going on? How could you (and your fellow students) sit through an entire course that cheated you of your time and the learning you'd need to practice the profession you were training for?
I'm sure the Chair of the Education Dept. (or School of...) and your doctoral program supervisor/s would have been very interested to know, that the course topic was never taught or even mentioned. It sounds like they hired a temporary instructor from the Economics Dept., because they were short a faculty member.
I answered that question in post 647
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
).
In fact, I'm sure of it.
