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Instead of having schools that impose a one-size-fits-all, rigid curriculum on everyone, what if we instead had "public superlibraries" which were basically libraries, plus miniclasses ( a miniclass is like a class that results in a certification at the end), plus mentors and counselors to help guide learners, plus daycare for young children? I would propose having a system like this, where children 0 to 8 would be eligible for free day care, young people 5-18 would be eligible for up to 7-8 hours of free miniclasses per weekday, and adults would be eligible for one free miniclass per day as a poverty-fighting measure? Obviously some fine-tuning would be needed but with the appropriate conditions, replacing schools with superlibraries could be made approximately revenue-neutral.
Thoughts?
Why do you need a physical location? Why not replace schools with something along the lines of the Khan Academy? https://www.khanacademy.org/
There is no need for a "building" whether you call it a school house or library. Students can learn online at home and progress at their own pace through subjects.
If education was online we would reduce the costs of having "Teachers", Administration costs, Transportation of students, Feeding of students and support workers.
Online learning would eliminate many of the social problems of our current failed system.
1) Students learn at their own pace. Slow learners would not hold back others. There would be no disruption from the "class clowns". There would be no discipline problems. Children would learn or not.
2) Eliminates school bullying. Every child would have a chance without the influence of mentally defective bullies.
3) No school shootings. Without a target rich environment of a school house mass killings would be eliminated.
4) Even if we provided a NEW laptop every year AND free internet it would cost a fraction of what we pay now.
Of course parents would lose the "free babysitting" schoolhouses provide. I am sure with a little innovation it could be worked out. Maybe neighborhood child care centers or maybe parents would take some responsibility for the cost of raising their children?
On edit- Another great thing about an online based curriculum is that students would be able to study a variety of subjects not available in the schoolhouse. What if a kid wants to learn urdu as a language elective? How many schools offer urdu?
Sure, in other words, keep doing what we know does not work. That'll show'em.
No, it all begins in the home. That's why teachers have to act like prison wardens rather than teachers. That's why so many kids are disruptive and the other kids can't learn. Not that I know the answer, but it all starts in the home and involves the parents.
Some form of early intervention, maybe. But that will never happen. There are kids who have never seen a book, never saw a person read, whose parents are neglectful alcoholics, whose parents aren't even there. Those are the same kids who come to school and act out and disrupt the entire class.
Then you have towns with high educational levels among the parents, the parents spend time taking the kids to museums and libraries, reading to them, and so on--the schools in those towns produce good students.
I don't know how to change what goes on at home, but that's the basis. You can't really take those kids out of their homes and send them away to special, strict schools to teach them how to behave and to be like normal kids but that is probably the answer. It starts at home--BIGTIME.
No, it all begins in the home. That's why teachers have to act like prison wardens rather than teachers. That's why so many kids are disruptive and the other kids can't learn. Not that I know the answer, but it all starts in the home and involves the parents.
Some form of early intervention, maybe. But that will never happen. There are kids who have never seen a book, never saw a person read, whose parents are neglectful alcoholics, whose parents aren't even there. Those are the same kids who come to school and act out and disrupt the entire class.
Then you have towns with high educational levels among the parents, the parents spend time taking the kids to museums and libraries, reading to them, and so on--the schools in those towns produce good students.
I don't know how to change what goes on at home, but that's the basis. You can't really take those kids out of their homes and send them away to special, strict schools to teach them how to behave and to be like normal kids but that is probably the answer. It starts at home--BIGTIME.
It does start at home. Why do we force children into gulags every day with children that are disruptive or worse. Why do we still have a system of schooling that requires a physical "School building". Very few k-12 subjects have changed much over the years. Why is it we need a "teacher" in every classroom when a single teacher could present subject matter to millions of kids?
No, it all begins in the home. That's why teachers have to act like prison wardens rather than teachers. That's why so many kids are disruptive and the other kids can't learn. Not that I know the answer, but it all starts in the home and involves the parents.
Some form of early intervention, maybe. But that will never happen. There are kids who have never seen a book, never saw a person read, whose parents are neglectful alcoholics, whose parents aren't even there. Those are the same kids who come to school and act out and disrupt the entire class.
Then you have towns with high educational levels among the parents, the parents spend time taking the kids to museums and libraries, reading to them, and so on--the schools in those towns produce good students.
I don't know how to change what goes on at home, but that's the basis. You can't really take those kids out of their homes and send them away to special, strict schools to teach them how to behave and to be like normal kids but that is probably the answer. It starts at home--BIGTIME.
I have some sympathy for that line of logic. Disruptive kids wreck many a classroom. Some kids come from homes that render said children more or less unsalvageable from an educational perspective. That's all pathetic and sad but also real.
I've mentioned this several times recently. A local school district is implementing a school day such that many kids are picked up early - fed breakfast, lunch and dinner plus the regular school day, plus some study time. This is being sold as a relief for working parents.....what it really is - is an effort to get kids away from disengaged parents, and worse, so much as possible.
No, it all begins in the home. That's why teachers have to act like prison wardens rather than teachers. That's why so many kids are disruptive and the other kids can't learn. Not that I know the answer, but it all starts in the home and involves the parents.
Some form of early intervention, maybe. But that will never happen. There are kids who have never seen a book, never saw a person read, whose parents are neglectful alcoholics, whose parents aren't even there. Those are the same kids who come to school and act out and disrupt the entire class.
Then you have towns with high educational levels among the parents, the parents spend time taking the kids to museums and libraries, reading to them, and so on--the schools in those towns produce good students.
I don't know how to change what goes on at home, but that's the basis. You can't really take those kids out of their homes and send them away to special, strict schools to teach them how to behave and to be like normal kids but that is probably the answer. It starts at home--BIGTIME.
It's well known that teachers blame parents for just about everything. There was even a thread about it on here. I can't find it with CD's search engine. I just ignore such postings any more.
It's well known that teachers blame parents for just about everything. There was even a thread about it on here. I can't find it with CD's search engine. I just ignore such postings any more.
Fine. You can ignore it but I wonder how many years of teaching you have under your belt.
My former first graders--some came from good homes and were well adjusted and I could have left them with some work and instructions and they would have done it on their own and loved it.
Then I had a kid who seemed smart but when I went to his home, it was dark and cold. His nine year old brother said he did all the cooking. The place was a mess. Apparently there was a mother but she was working all the time. Father had run off some time ago. I had wondered why that kid who seemed smart just acted silly and goofy. Then I knew why. I reported it but nobody ever did anything.
Another one was 8 years old, still in first grade, had been kicked out of another school system. She was always trying to stab other kids with scissors, she would erase the work I would put on the board, she ripped up other kids' papers, she'd be walking around the room hitting and pestering other kids all day long. The gym teacher refused to take her and so did the music teacher. The mother was co-operative in that school, so was the principal, but nothing helped. She shouldn't have been in that school in a regular classroom. She also tackled the school secretary by the ankles, bringing her down hard. The problem was a divorce, from what I was told.
Those are just two cases but there was no help provided when I asked. These kids would have been all right except for their home situations.
Then there are the parents who let their kids disrupt the entire class and if the teacher tries to do anything, the teacher gets fired. I saw that happen in a middle school. The kid could smack the teacher. Principal called the parents in and they sued the school for punishing their little snowflake.
How do you think these kids got this way? It all starts in the home. Maybe if we had one teacher for every kid, they would get the attention they need. In some cases where it's just hardship at home, it would work, but in cases of neglect and abuse, they need intervention.
In some towns, the majority of the kids are like this. People wonder why teachers burn out and leave.
Last edited by in_newengland; 10-19-2019 at 08:30 PM..
Fine. You can ignore it but I wonder how many years of teaching you have under your belt.
None, but I have about 40 years of maternal/child health nursing under my belt, including public health nursing and community pediatrics. I've been a public health nurse. I've seen situations like you describe. I worked with parents too, including when their kids were sick. We had the philosophy that parents wanted the best for their kids, even if "the best" as they saw it wasn't always "the best" as we saw it. We didn't look at them as adversaries.
"Several years ago, someone--not me--posted a list of "funny" excerpts from parent excuse notes on the lounge bulletin board, illustrating parents' misspellings and malaprops. As a group of teachers were eating lunch, a custodian came in for a cup of coffee. He stood reading the list, cradling his mug.
He turned to the teachers: Is this what you think of us, the parents in this district? There was dead silence, as he walked out. Like most support staff in this small town, he grew up here, sent his children to our classrooms, paid taxes and came to football games."
A quick Google search brings up articles like:
10 Types of Parents That Teachers Secretly Hate | Parents
Not to be outdone by "Parents", 11 types of parents that teachers secretly dislike - Businessinsider.com
23 Teachers Reveal The Absolute Worst Parents They've Ever Dealt With
Just 5 this time: Teacher confessions: 5 things parents shouldn't do
10 Habits That Make Your Kid's Teacher Hate You, According To Real Teachers
Why Teachers Hate Parents | A to Z Teacher Stuff Forums
Up to 30 now: 30 Worst Things Parents Can Say to Their Kids' Teachers ...
The Types of Parents that Teachers Secretly Hate - SheBudgets
11 Types of Parents Every Teacher Is Sure to Meet At Least Once
Teacher Burnout? Blame the Parents - The New York Times
Plus much, much more!
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-19-2019 at 10:23 PM..
None, but I have about 40 years of maternal/child health nursing under my belt, including public health nursing and community pediatrics. I've been a public health nurse. I've seen situations like you describe. I worked with parents too, including when their kids were sick. We had the philosophy that parents wanted the best for their kids, even if "the best" as they saw it wasn't always "the best" as we saw it. We didn't look at them as adversaries.
You've got it backwards if you think the teachers look at parents as adversaries. Besides, lots of teachers are also parents.
The teachers want to help the kids and that works great when the parents want to help the kids too. But you must not have seen the parents who batter their kids, the men who beat the wives, the drunks, the homes with the tv blasting all the time and no money for the kids to have a decent jacket or pair of shoes. Believe it or not, those things affect the kids' behavior and attitude toward school.
I taught in two New England states so you'd think quiet, quaint little towns, but No. I can't even explain it to someone who doesn't understand.
The way they are treated at home sets the stage for how well they will do in school. I think most people know that. People come on these forums all the time to ask what town is best for them, meaning what town has the best school system. And the answers are the same--if they come from a good home, that's the main thing that matters. Sure, there are a few really horrible cities and towns to avoid, but for the most part, if the kid is well grounded and knows how to behave, they will do fine even in an average school.
Now, the kid in 5th grade who spent part of the day curled into a fetal position under her desk--do you think she did well in school? Or her older brother who was always running away from home and later became a drug dealer? Do you think they had any energy or interest left over for learning? And I reported them too--we had to and I hoped they would get help. As usual, nothing. If you think that is "adversarial" then think again.
As a matter of fact, this last dysfunctional family lived in my neighborhood and I could see the father out there all day drinking with his crazy wife. I saw him take the baby, start swearing at her, and hold her way up in the air and shake her until I, watching and hearing from a distance, broke down crying. The neighbors and I would call the police, the police would come and take the parents away and bring them back.
When I had them as students later on in school, I saw the results of how they were treated at home. As I said, I then reported it as teachers are mandated to do, and nothing came of it. Other teachers reported it. These kids are in no position to learn when they have much, MUCH worse things to worry about.
And even in the rich towns, a lot of the kids today are so spoiled and coddled that if a teacher looks at them the wrong way, the parents are right there, ready to fire the teacher or sue the school for daring to speak that way to their spoiled brat. And I'm talking about some of the richest suburbs in the Boston area because I have a close relative who taught there and saw it all. She retired a year or two early because things had gotten so bad. Back when she started teaching, things were different and kids had been taught respect. There would be one or two in the class who would come from a bad home environment but you could talk to the parents and usually something could be worked out. Today they would rather sue you. My relative says to never tell anyone you care about to go into teaching.
InNewEngland, I’ve spent time working with kids in neighborhoods like you describe, including time in homes. It’s eye opening and you can see how home life can impact all other parts of the life, including school life.
There are so many different variables when it comes to kids and the kind of education they need that it would be cool if there were different options or different kids which is why I like parts of the super libraries idea presented in the OP.
Some kids would do well with coming to school part time and getting the basics, but having ample opportunities outside of school for extracurricular activities, yet other kids don’t have that same opportunity and would be better served by going to school full time and having those needs met at school.
Some kids are self motivated and would do well with having a lot of choices and and the ability to choose to follow their interests. These types of kids would pursue their interest beyond the confines of the classroom. Other kids need more structure and direction overall to pursue their education.
Some kids need explicit reading instruction, others will learn to read easily with little to no instruction. Some kids will fly through math and it will click, others need to go at a slower pace.
So many variables which is why I like hearing different ideas.
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