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Whether it's true or not, all that matters when it comes to hiring is perception, not reality. Keep in mind that the people in charge of hiring are not going to be the people who spent every waking minute in the library studying to get that 4.0 rather than 3.99. Rightly or wrongly, the people making the decision are going to be the former frat guy / sorority girl who spent their time schmoozing, and doing just well enough in academics. And, rightly or wrongly, people are going to hire whoever they relate to most.
Many schools never had frats or sororities. Many have also closed them down. They're not at all what they once were. You think only members of frats and sororities get jobs and are making hiring decisions? Boy are you wrong.
It's not about whether someone does research in their job. It's about:
a. Demonstrating the ability to go beyond the minimum requirements; think independently; plan work; present results.
and
b. Quite frankly, having something in your resume that stands out from the pile.
Don't get stuck on the word "research" because it doesn't mean what you think it means. No one expects a BS graduate to do PhD work. What it does mean is someone has experience in thinking deeply about a problem, planning their work, dealing with inevitable issues, and presenting results to a bigger audience. Why wouldn't you want those skills in the workplace?
Seriously guys, if you have a stack of resumes, who are you going to pick out of that stack to interview? Which of the dozens and dozens that are almost word for word identical or the few who have done something extra?
Research doesn't mean they went beyond any minimum requirements, are able to think independently, plan work, or present anything. Undergrads who conduct research are not conducting it alone. They are doing it under a grad student or professor who is telling them what to do. What makes you think no one as an undergrad is not doing these things? I had to do all of them as an undergrad in my courses. A degree doesn't mean someone has any experience doing anything other than their courses. It also doesn't mean that they don't have experience in deeply thinking. You have no idea what people's lives are like. Maybe you should find a new job and leave the hiring to someone else because you clearly have a great disdain for recent grads.
Research doesn't mean they went beyond any minimum requirements, are able to think independently, plan work, or present anything. Undergrads who conduct research are not conducting it alone. They are doing it under a grad student or professor who is telling them what to do. What makes you think no one as an undergrad is not doing these things? I had to do all of them as an undergrad in my courses. A degree doesn't mean someone has any experience doing anything other than their courses. It also doesn't mean that they don't have experience in deeply thinking. You have no idea what people's lives are like. Maybe you should find a new job and leave the hiring to someone else because you clearly have a great disdain for recent grads.
No one does research alone if that's your concern. You do understand there is a big difference between the "research" every student does and actual research leading to publication or presentation (typically a poster session), right?
So, what would you look at on their resumes then? Toss a coin?
I doubt the interns I've sponsored over the years, nor the young engineers I've hired, nor the ones I'm about too will find any disdain. What they will find is advice on how to set their resume apart from the crowd.
Many schools never had frats or sororities. Many have also closed them down. They're not at all what they once were. You think only members of frats and sororities get jobs and are making hiring decisions? Boy are you wrong.
Yep, I don’t really know anyone who is a hiring manager who was in a sorority or fraternity, and a lot of my friends at this point are hiring managers. I’m among the lazy group who just has no interest in being a hiring manager. That poster seems to be stuck in the late ‘90s or early ‘00s. I don’t know anyone else who is fortysomething still going on about a 6th grade teacher. I can only vaguely recall my 6th grade teachers and if you ask me what grades I got, I wouldn’t have the foggiest clue.
Yep, I don’t really know anyone who is a hiring manager who was in a sorority or fraternity, and a lot of my friends at this point are hiring managers. I’m among the lazy group who just has no interest in being a hiring manager. That poster seems to be stuck in the late ‘90s or early ‘00s. I don’t know anyone else who is fortysomething still going on about a 6th grade teacher. I can only vaguely recall my 6th grade teachers and if you ask me what grades I got, I wouldn’t have the foggiest clue.
Many hiring managers I know are in frats/sororities, but most aren't. And it makes sense as most people don't pledge in college or afterward. That said, if a hiring manager is in a frat and comes across an applicant who is in the same frat (or sorority for women), I'd imagine that this could very well end up working in the applicant's favor. Nothing inherent about being a positive, but I'd imagine that it could open the door to conversation points and help set said applicant apart from others as the manager and applicant reminisce about "old" times.
Many schools never had frats or sororities. Many have also closed them down. They're not at all what they once were. You think only members of frats and sororities get jobs and are making hiring decisions? Boy are you wrong.
While all (and not even most) are certainly not in frats/sororities, I think it's important to note that frats and sororities extend beyond the social frats and also touch on academic/honor/business society types. Networking is, right or wrong, often a big part of the job market for folks. And things that connect an applicant with an interviewer/hiring manager (whether it be frat/sorority affiliation, school affiliation, region/part of the country/world affiliation, etc.) cannot be understated IMO in terms of positive impact. Outside of pure merit-based hiring--which is rare--interpersonal relationships and connections can and do play a huge role in employment. Frats/sororities can and do play a role in building such connections.
Diversity in hiring just means hiring people who look different but think alike. They have quotas requiring a certain number of women and minorities to be hired, but then they give personality tests, and only hire those who answer correctly on the personality tests, only hire those who listen to the right music, only hire those who eat the right breakfast, etc.
Not every employer is screening for which podcasts you listen to, which concerts you go to, or any of that. Nor do many do "personality tests." I couldn't rule out that yes, some bosses hire people who seem like a good "fit" during the interview, and that's a bit subjective.
But large organizations with thousands of employees... sorry, but you're being hired mainly by a crew of HR staff sorting your resume by key word. They aren't parsing for personality.
The more diverse a large organization is, the more... diverse it is. People don't all think alike. Women come in many types, so do people with disabilities, so to people who are visible minorities and so forth... there isn't one category of woman, one category of disabled person, one category of visible minority, etc.
There's still some of the shmoozy networking going on, of course there is - some people have so much money and such stellar friend and family connections that the GPA is irrelevant, for them. For the rest of us working stiffs, we need to do more than schmooze.
Many hiring managers I know are in frats/sororities, but most aren't. And it makes sense as most people don't pledge in college or afterward. That said, if a hiring manager is in a frat and comes across an applicant who is in the same frat (or sorority for women), I'd imagine that this could very well end up working in the applicant's favor. Nothing inherent about being a positive, but I'd imagine that it could open the door to conversation points and help set said applicant apart from others as the manager and applicant reminisce about "old" times.
Probably true in some businesses.
Not at all true in others.
Or to quote an old manager of mine: "I don't care how 'nice' anyone on the team is, I want people to be productive."
Getting a job by chatting up college days, seems kinda quaint, genteel, sorta like the 1940s or something.
Or to quote an old manager of mine: "I don't care how 'nice' anyone on the team is, I want people to be productive."
Getting a job by chatting up college days, seems kinda quaint, genteel, sorta like the 1940s or something.
I haven’t had an interview in over a decade that wasn’t a panel interview. I think that’s in part to eliminate the possibility of picking someone just because they were in a specific fraternity. That said, I am in government and the friends and family plan is still in force. It’s more either people making a position with an ad specifically for you or people getting sent over to help from various offices. At my last job, we had so many people sent over, but for the most part they were extremely skilled and overqualified for what they were getting paid and were basically just sticking around a few years for the cheap health insurance as they would qualify for Medicare soon. We usually got the frat boy collection in the legislative group though. That said, they were basically put there to go schmooze for 3-4 months, so it made more sense with that position.
I haven’t had an interview in over a decade that wasn’t a panel interview. I think that’s in part to eliminate the possibility of picking someone just because they were in a specific fraternity. That said, I am in government and the friends and family plan is still in force. It’s more either people making a position with an ad specifically for you or people getting sent over to help from various offices. At my last job, we had so many people sent over, but for the most part they were extremely skilled and overqualified for what they were getting paid and were basically just sticking around a few years for the cheap health insurance as they would qualify for Medicare soon. We usually got the frat boy collection in the legislative group though. That said, they were basically put there to go schmooze for 3-4 months, so it made more sense with that position.
Were degrees/professional credentials or, more to the point, GPAs of any importance during the hiring process?
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