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I don't know what could be more clear about saying this is not a situation 5 year olds should have had any part in. The teacher should have taken it upon herself to reslove it in a way that took into account the best interests of all the kids. That may have meant the child leaving the classroom.
These children are 5 years old! Suppression of feelings of victimization? When was there any mention of this child making anyone feel victimized?
The boy had been disrupting the class with behavior problems over time. Read hypocore's post to get an idea of what this is like for the other kids in the classroom; the kids hypocore spoke of cowered in the classroom every time their classmate erupted. That is not at all unusual in cases like this. //www.city-data.com/forum/3921037-post57.html
If you believe that 5 year olds can't feel victimized, then that would apply to the boy in question, as well. Clearly that isn't the case, as he feels badly about his classmates not liking his disruptive behavior and stating such. 5 year olds can and do feel badly about an adverse environment.
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Originally Posted by InformedConsent
This may not be a well-received concept, but some of them will be empowered by learning that they don't have to shut up and suffer an adverse environment in silence because some people's rights have been elevated over others.
This entire statement is ludicrous, the children are five years old!
Kids should never just shut up and continue to suffer under a documented adverse environment, even 5 year-olds.
The boy had been disrupting the class with behavior problems over time. Read hypocore's post to get an idea of what this is like for the other kids in the classroom; the kids hypocore spoke of cowered in the classroom every time their classmate erupted. That is not at all unusual in cases like this. //www.city-data.com/forum/3921037-post57.html
If you believe that 5 year olds can't feel victimized, then that would apply to the boy in question, as well. Clearly that isn't the case, as he feels badly about his classmates not liking his disruptive behavior and stating such. 5 year olds can and do feel badly about an adverse environment.
Kids should never just shut up and continue to suffer under a documented adverse environment, even 5 year-olds.
Well, I am not going to go back and forth on these points. First of all I never said that five year olds can't feel victimized. I just don't believe there are victims in this situation, other than the boy in question. I have read hypocore's post and if you read my other posts you would see that I TOO have experience in classrooms. I don't know where you get the idea that (children cowering in the corner) "this is not at all unusual in cases like this". Have you worked in a classroom? Have you worked in a classroom with children with special needs? I have not worked in the aspect of teacher but rather as a paraprofessional. I know exactly how another child's behavior can affect the other children in the classroom. I never stated that children should "shut up" and continue to suffer. This child is being tested for Asperberger's Syndrome. Once he has been diagnosed he will have a team put in to place for his benefit. Such a team will consist of teachers, parents, a social worker, child psycholgist and administration. They will come up with the appropriate EIP and chances are he will spend time in a "normal" class room. This is a normal practice for children with behavioral disorders. Children need to learn tolerance and patience just like everyone else. As I said before, this child will not grow up to become an adult living in a bubble with others who share his fate. He will live in a world filled with many individuals who have their own crosses to bare. It is important to assimilate children early while dealing with their disorders on a personal level as well.
The bottom line is the teacher (I use this term loosely) should have dealt with this matter without involving the other students. She made a terrible error in judgment and should pay the price.
As I stated before I don't wish to go back and forth with you on these points. Let's have this conversation after you have worked in a classroom, preferably one that includes special needs children.
And for God's sake, no one said it was OK for the child to behave as he did. But 5 year old children should not, I repeat NOT, be involved in the discipline. NOT, NOT, NOT!!!
First of all I never said that five year olds can't feel victimized. I just don't believe there are victims in this situation, other than the boy in question.
That would be an incorrect assumption.
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I have read hypocore's post and if you read my other posts you would see that I TOO have experience in classrooms. I don't know where you get the idea that (children cowering in the corner) "this is not at all unusual in cases like this". Have you worked in a classroom? Have you worked in a classroom with children with special needs? I have not worked in the aspect of teacher but rather as a paraprofessional. I know exactly how another child's behavior can affect the other children in the classroom. I never stated that children should "shut up" and continue to suffer. This child is being tested for Asperberger's Syndrome. Once he has been diagnosed he will have a team put in to place for his benefit. Such a team will consist of teachers, parents, a social worker, child psycholgist and administration. They will come up with the appropriate EIP and chances are he will spend time in a "normal" class room. This is a normal practice for children with behavioral disorders. Children need to learn tolerance and patience just like everyone else. As I said before, this child will not grow up to become an adult living in a bubble with others who share his fate. He will live in a world filled with many individuals who have their own crosses to bare. It is important to assimilate children early while dealing with their disorders on a personal level as well.
...this should not be done with blind disregard for the other students' education and safety. Chronically disruptive students should not be placing other students in danger, or impeding anyone else's education.
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The bottom line is the teacher (I use this term loosely) should have dealt with this matter without involving the other students.
You seem to be eager to place him back in the 'bubble' by shielding him from the real world negative consequences of his actions.
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As I stated before I don't wish to go back and forth with you on these points. Let's have this conversation after you have worked in a classroom, preferably one that includes special needs children.
Your assumptions are totally incorrect. In my experience, all of the children suffer, including the disruptive student.
this reminds me of the recent story of the autistic boy whose family was kicked out of church because the parents couldn't control him. they didn't want to take responsibility for his behavior, either. i think that's the reason some people are so eager to label their kids these days: give bad behavior a pseudo-medical diagnosis, and it ceases to be anyone's "fault."
this sounds like a teacher, at her wit's end, trying to find a creative way to teach this child how his behavior was affecting others. unfortunately, the method, and the lesson, were both completely lost on a five-year-old.
this reminds me of the recent story of the autistic boy whose family was kicked out of church because the parents couldn't control him. they didn't want to take responsibility for his behavior, either. i think that's the reason some people are so eager to label their kids these days: give bad behavior a pseudo-medical diagnosis, and it ceases to be anyone's "fault."
this sounds like a teacher, at her wit's end, trying to find a creative way to teach this child how his behavior was affecting others. unfortunately, the method, and the lesson, were both completely lost on a five-year-old.
Oh, for crying out loud. Let's let everyone vote on who they want in their class. Maybe some kids will vote out the kid who always scores 100% on the tests. Maybe someone will be voted out for the clothes they wear, not "hip" enough. Maybe someone will be voted out for being too fat. And let's blame all the parents while we're at it. Exasperated? You bet I am!
Oh, for crying out loud. Let's let everyone vote on who they want in their class. Maybe some kids will vote out the kid who always scores 100% on the tests. Maybe someone will be voted out for the clothes they wear, not "hip" enough. Maybe someone will be voted out for being too fat. And let's blame all the parents while we're at it. Exasperated? You bet I am!
I can understand you feel frustrated. It might be easier to understand how negatively a disruptive student can impact a class and terrorize other students if you've ever visited a classroom in which a student who had difficulty controlling his/her behavior and was mainstreamed in a regular classroom with a special needs diagnosis toppled desks and tables and threw chairs when he/she felt frustrated while the other children try to scramble and duck, and end up huddled together in a corner, crying. Or in another classroom in which a student who has difficulty controlling his/her behavior gets frustrated and shoves a classmate into a bookcase so hard that the classmate suffers a broken arm. I've dealt with the lingering effects of that and more, including disruptive students who because of a diagnosed disability couldn't handle frustration well and coped poorly by hitting, kicking, biting, and spitting at others.
Some of the disruptive students' classmates still suffer from PTSD years later because of recurring events like these that no one can prevent because the diagnosed disabled student is the only child in the classroom with legal protections and rights.
This is the last time I will say this. I do not necessarily favor keeping the child in the classroom. I have said this several times before, today. I do object to the teacher having the class vote the child out like a "Survivior" episode.
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