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The "Embarrassment Factor" as you call it, is what kept my daughter pushing to take that LA/SS class in 8th grade. My husband almost gave in, but I knew she couldn't handle the pressure. I am glad we stuck to our guns. It really was better for her to shine in a regular class, than to struggle all year in an honors class.
I don't know about your plan as the courses here in CO are called by different names. I do know it's almost impossible to get into a CA state U as an out-of-state student.
I think you are doing well to consider her true passion. Another thing I told my DD was that it is bad to struggle and put so much time into one class that you don't have enough time left for the classes you really like!
Your statement about gifted brings up another point.
Gifted programs should include kids who are truly gifted in various areas, not just academics. Therefore there should be kids in the gifted class who are not honor students. Once they hit high school there really isn't that much of a 'gifted' program as it shifts to AP, Honors or Advanced and they will likely differ in which subjects they are are part of.
My second daughter, in addition to the AP Math, was also in AP Social Studies (ie History, Geography etc), and in AP Art. Very different areas of learning. She never developed a true passion for art, yet could have been very very good. She was a great student in the other subjects, yet her passion always fell with math.
My third daughter, who will be going into 5th grade, is in the gifted/talented pull out program and straight A student. She's very passionate about anything regarding science/nature and reading. Everything else is a breeze for her and doesn't take much thought, yet she gets excited about science and I'd rather see her dig deep in those subjects when in high school, than to jump on all AP classes just because she excells so in them. We'll see though...we've still got a few years. haha
I do know it's almost impossible to get into a CA state U as an out-of-state student.
It isn't totally impossible, it just is much more difficult for out of state students. For example, 18% of the students at UCLA (one of out of state student's favorite campuses to apply to) are from out of state. The thing is, you have to be a real stand out to be one of the students they pick from out of state. Basically, if there is a CA kid equal to you, they will take he or she over the out of state student. But, say for example you were ranked as the academic decathalon champion of Kentucky. This might make you a "stand out" that adds to the "diversity" of the student body. What makes it harder is that you need to be more unique than you would if you were a CA resident. Many of the students from out of state attending UC schools are some of the top students around, hence their admission despite being out of state. The types of students that likely got accepted into Harvard, Brown, or Northwestern also.
You probably have better chances at Stanford than UC Berkley being out of state.
Maybe 95% is the amount that actually chooses to attend. Here is what the UC system says University of California - Admissions (http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/selecting/camp_profiles/camp_profiles_ucla.html - broken link)
As a math teacher and someone that has an IB Diploma, I would be more inclined to have her try the Algebra class. If I recall, she is looking to be in the IB program in the future and it's virtually impossible to get the IB diploma without taking Algebra I in the 8th grade. I say this because it will affect the course sequences. She's going to have to study a science at the higher level (either Chemistry or Biology) and she's going to have to take Precalculus and Calculus (in some form).
There is nothing wrong with a student having a C being in an advanced class. I had a couple of students in my AP calculus class that went on to score 4s on the AP exam. If the student has motivation, I'd let a D student take an advanced class. A real passionate teacher and a motivated student can make it work, trust me.
And yes, it is virtually impossible to get into the UCs as an out of state student. You have to be either a recruited athlete, have an amazing talent, or just simply extraordinary. Test scores are super important in their admissions process and if you have less than, I would say 2000 on your college boards and you're not being recruited, you probably shouldn't even bother to apply.
And someone said something about honors and advanced classes being about the pace of the work. That's not true, it's mostly about the students ability to understand the concepts in depth and to be able to think at a higher level.
Last edited by pennquaker09; 07-16-2008 at 03:49 AM..
Reason: added some more info
I hear what most people are saying here about easing up and all, but when it comes to my own princess the ears tend to clog a bit. I am open to what people think though, I know it looks a lot different from the outside.
Actually, she tanked because of issues with her father. She was promised a trip home (Cali) to spend her first Christmas with him since she was 3, with him and his new wife, new daughter, and stepson (who, to her dismay, calls him Dad). At the last minute, he tells her they can't afford it. She was crushed, and he topped it off with letting guilt or whatever stop him from contacting her at all afterwards. She got no gift or anything. The stepson got an X-box and 4 games.
She went back to school after the break and did nothing in any class. Her other teachers and I talked, and the math teacher was invited, but said she was doing fine in his class and declined to meet with us. Her other teachers emphatically told me that she was very capable of doing well at the gifted and advanced level, and clearly she was down and distracted. There was a lot of knowing nodding when I explained the winter break scenario.
In the Spring I took her and her friends to Cali myself, and she spent 3 days with him and the rest of the week bouncing around like a tourist with me and the other kids. She came back to school and was back to her old self, but with a lot of ground to make up. She made it all up as quickly as she could, especially considering the sudden lack of homework and classwork as they started prepping for standardized testing and winding down for the end of the year.
Also, I wasn't bragging about her being a B student (although I'm proud of her), I was just adding it since she can do that with little effort and she obviously wasn't putting in any effort between winter and spring breaks.
As for what she wants, she took it upon herself to write her old teacher an email. I did a controversial thing and read it behind her back (along with any other mail from friends and a lot of spam deleting I always do). It didn't explain anything, just said she wanted back in advanced math and she was sorry she stopped working for a while and would he please let her take the class in 8th grade. No response yet.
If it helps with the advice-giving, she's a year younger than most in her grade for this state because she started in Cali. She'll still be 12 in 8th grade. Maybe a maturity thing? Will that matter in math?
The thing that keeps coming back to me is her B in math. I know in our schools if you don't have at least an A- average, you don't get into the upper level math class in 8th grade. I realize that you said she wasn't trying but there are a lot of kids that are getting A's without trying too. We have twins that are going into 8th grade. They are both A students without putting in a lot of effort and they aren't even close to the top students in the class. DD has even told me there are times she feels dumb in math with some of the things other kids can do in her class. She had 99% in math for the year so she isn't a slouch either.
Our older child sounds like your DD, he doesn't put forth a lot of effort and was in the regular math program in 8th and 9th grade. His 9th grade teacher suggested a summer math program to get him on track with the advanced math kids because he saw that he was more then capable of doing the work but in his case, lazy. He felt if he was pushed more he would do better. He took summer geometry last summer and was in the advanced math in 10th grade. He will take pre-calc in 11th grade and Calculus in 12th grade. An extra year of maturity made a HUGE difference for him. It might be something you want to look into for your DD too (if your school offers that).
To all those saying no, soak that in. Kids in Asian countries are taking algebra when they are basically 6th graders.
Yup. But with multiple choice bubble tests, homework being graded based on completion rather than accuracy, and teaching them how to plug in answers until they find the right one....our current kids can't do enough math in 6th grade to handle Algebra. It is difficult to get into in 8th grade here.
(above comments referencing observations at our middle school understanding the same might not be true everywhere).
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I am open to what people think though, I know it looks a lot different from the outside.
