Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Now wait a minute, homeschooling is also limited by your environment as well. If you aren't close to a community college (which still noone has answered my question, if your child is going to class with 18+ year old college kids, how is that any better than going to class with high school kids, all the same "evils" are there, but probably moreso because there isn't as much supervision)
Jenn, the differences amount to two crucial qualities: maturity and choice.
Even though a college student and a high school student might both be 18, the college student has a leg up in maturity, generally speaking, because she's having to live on her own, having to budget, having to remind herself to go to class, do the work, and study. The high school student, generally speaking, has fewer responsibilities and less self-control.
Choice is the other crucial factor. College is voluntary; high school is not. College students, even those at CCs, have elected to go there and that choice makes them invested in their education in a way that compulsorily-educated students often are not.
Moreover, perhaps you're assuming that a parent of a young homeschooler who attends community college courses just drops them off at the door to the college, waves goodbye, and that's it? It's a big, wide world, and perhaps there are a few parents who do that -- I wouldn't know -- but in my experience, most parents in this circumstance stick around and wait for the child to come out of class and then take them home.
Quote:
Public school too, is only limited by what the parent and child are willing to put into it. All those same things can be achieved while the child is attending public school.
I'm sorry, but this would be nice if it were true. Regrettably, it is not true. As we all know, socioeconomic differences between neighborhoods have a profound effect on the quality of education to be found from school to school. It's not merely a matter of "what the parent and child are willing to put into it." Moreover, many schools have been reluctant to provide reasonable accommodations for gifted and profoundly gifted children, which is why many of those children are homeschooled, so again, this is not merely a matter of the parents' or children's failure to "put into" school what they want to get out of it.
Quote:
I am not antihomeschooling by any stretch, I'm just saying, which I have said over and over again and it is exactly why I am asking, is that I have not encountered one child that has been homeschooled successfully.
I have not encountered one person born in Ukraine. This does not mean that there are none.
Quote:
I am not saying they are not out there, just that I have not encountered any and therefor I have not encoutered a family that has done it successfully. I want to find out from families that HAVE done it successfully.
Well, I'm not sure our family is the perfect example because our child is not yet out of school and into Harvard, Yale, or Stanford, but as far as "successful" goes, our child is ahead many grades even in her weakest subject. Possibly, you consider this success.
Quote:
Questioning should always be encouraged. Anyone that just jumps on the bandwagon without investigating is not doing their child any favors.
Oh, and any school district that allows non AP certified teachers to teach AP classes, particularly in a subject that isn't even their specialty, is not a school district my child would ever be attending. Fortunately that is not the case in mine. They have to take special classes and take special tests to be able to teach AP classes.
"They" meaning teachers? If so, this is most unusual. I have not taught everywhere there is to teach, but nowhere have I ever heard, even on the College Board's message boards where AP teachers talk amongst themselves, that any teacher has to "take special classes and...tests to be able to teach AP classes." Would you mind letting me know what special classes and tests you're referring to? This is very interesting to me. If you're referring to the AP workshops, which you very possibly are, those don't involve passing a test, so I'm a little confused here. I'm also not aware that they're used as prerequisites for teaching AP. Most AP teachers I know take the workshops voluntarily because they want to exchange ideas with colleagues and learn new materials and approaches, but I'm again not aware that they're anything but voluntary. Perhaps this is different in your district?
Last edited by Charles Wallace; 09-21-2008 at 11:19 AM..
I truly don't understand how someone with an English degree is more qualified than your general high school English teacher to teach an AP English class.
I can speak to that one. I think that in general, having the English degree, while it's not a foolproof assurance that you'll be taught a quality class, is an incredible, enormous help. It allows you the depth and breadth of knowledge of content to help you choose curricular materials and be able to explain them in depth, for one thing.
Quote:
Of course the point of taking an AP class is to get college credit, right? What benefit does taking a high school AP class over taking an actual English class in college, if the student does not go to high school? It kind of seems the same as comparing a child who learns to read in 1st grade to the child who skips 1st grade because he's advanced and is able to keep up with the 2nd grade level work. He does not lose the benefit of learning to read... he is already reading! If a student does not need an AP class to matriculate and take a college level class.... what exactly is the problem?
I'm sensing what may be a little confusion? AP courses generally exempt a student from having to take lower-level required classes. For example, if a student scores a "5" or "4" on an AP exam, s/he may (depending on the university's policies) be exempted from having to take English 101-102, a common requirement at most universities.
Quote:
And what of the children who don't take AP classes in high school because they're challenged enough taking regular college prep or honors classes? Do you truly feel that they have a lifetime advantage over kids who took that 12th grade AP class?
Actually, I'd argue that the AP courses are more challenging.
Exactly, I had to attend a College Board workshop in order to teach AP Chemistry and Calculus. I have never heard of a school just placing someone in an AP class without the proper qualifications. Actually, under George Bush's idiotic NCLB law, a teacher has to be highly qualified in the subject (or subjects) that they teach. There are really only two ways to go this: Have a major in the said subject, or have a masters degree. There's more to it, but that's the basic gist.
Moreover, perhaps you're assuming that a parent of a young homeschooler who attends community college courses just drops them off at the door to the college, waves goodbye, and that's it? It's a big, wide world, and perhaps there are a few parents who do that -- I wouldn't know -- but in my experience, most parents in this circumstance stick around and wait for the child to come out of class and then take them home.
Good grief! What a poor use of a parent's time! I know a few kids who have been sent to the CC or even the local university (U of Colorado) b/c the school could not provide the classes they needed, and they usually just took a bus.
"They" meaning teachers? If so, this is most unusual. I have not taught everywhere there is to teach, but nowhere have I ever heard, even on the College Board's message boards where AP teachers talk amongst themselves, that any teacher has to "take special classes and...tests to be able to teach AP classes." Would you mind letting me know what special classes and tests you're referring to? This is very interesting to me. If you're referring to the AP workshops, which you very possibly are, those don't involve passing a test, so I'm a little confused here. I'm also not aware that they're used as prerequisites for teaching AP. Most AP teachers I know take the workshops voluntarily because they want to exchange ideas with colleagues and learn new materials and approaches, but I'm again not aware that they're anything but voluntary. Perhaps this is different in your district?
On Friday, I posted a link about this subject on this thread. I think many/most schools are tightening up. All the AP teachers my kids had were specially prepared, to the best of my knowledge.
In Colorado, secondary teachers must major in a subject matter, not "education".
Then do not become a teacher or have friends who have kids....it is rampant everywhere! The homeschool community has no corner market here! As a teacher, every parent felt that their child should be treated differently, or given a different homework assignment, or whatever.
So, if you have kids, please stay away from schools, churches, sporting events, and homeschoolers. Or you might have to leave your child without a parent.
Dawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlenextyear
If I ever have kids and have to hang out with a bunch of parents who keep telling me how their children are so "gifted", I might hang myself.
As to the wasted time in school......oh man.....SOOO much time is wasted! I felt like I got to actually have a kids work about 1/2 of the time, the rest was taken up with assemblies, pictures, earthquake drills, days off during the riots and earthquake! (ok, well, some of that couldn't be helped! )
But really, it takes a long time to teach 30-40 kids in an hour's lesson compared to teaching my own kids more one on one.
As far as teachers not fully being qualified.....it is all about supply and demand. So many places in the country are desperate for teachers and will take what they can get.
Dawn
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepka
. I see a lot of time being wasted in the schools.
I have nothing against public schools per se--after all, I'm planning to become a teacher--but the quality of education has fallen off so sharply in recent years that some of the teachers are coming out of college unqualified to teach, and then getting a job in some of the best schools in the country. If you are a fourth grade teacher, you need to be able to spell the words that you're requiring the kids to learn, don't you think?
If I ever have kids and have to hang out with a bunch of parents who keep telling me how their children are so "gifted", I might hang myself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnW
Then do not become a teacher or have friends who have kids....it is rampant everywhere! The homeschool community has no corner market here! As a teacher, every parent felt that their child should be treated differently, or given a different homework assignment, or whatever.
So, if you have kids, please stay away from schools, churches, sporting events, and homeschoolers. Or you might have to leave your child without a parent.
Dawn
Actually, I can relate to seattlenextyear. I hear that as a pediatric nurse as well. Most parents get over it as their kids get older and the school of hard knocks teaches them otherwise. They get a different assignment and still don't learn the material, etc.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
