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Sam, I understand the logic you're offering here, and if it were accurate for teachers, it would certainly be a good idea, but speaking for myself, I can say without exception that each and every education course I took in college was fundamentally useless both in the classroom as an educator and at home as a homeschooler.
What genuinely did help me was my master's degree in the subject I teach -- that definitely gave me a broad understanding of my field's history, context, and major works. The courses I took in education were, by stark contrast, some of the most content-free I've ever experienced.
Now, perhaps my experience is not typical, and in fact I hope it's not, but I did go to a university whose program is highly regarded. In all honesty, speaking both as a teacher and as a homeschooler, I think your plan is well-meant and comes from a good place, but that it wouldn't provide the benefits you're hoping for in reality.
Thank you for your kind response. I did say that parents who home school should be required to prove their knowledge of the content areas. By that I mean math, science, reading, writing, ect. For example, science teachers are required to take many science classes, not just courses on how to teach science. By the time a science teacher graduates, he/she should have thorough knowledge in their subject. Elementary school teachers are usually required to have intensive training in the liberal arts.
I know what I'm about to say may sound rude, but I'll say it anyway. I have met many parents that can BARELY construct a sentence or add two simple fractions. These people should NOT be allowed to home school. I'm not saying that all parents are like that. I just want to make sure that all children get the best education that they can, whether it be in a traditional school or from their parents.
I can tell you from experience that it is very hard to teach something you know very little about. I put myself in that situation once, and I will never do it again.
Thank you for your kind response. I did say that parents who home school should be required to prove their knowledge of the content areas. By that I mean math, science, reading, writing, ect. For example, science teachers are required to take many science classes, not just courses on how to teach science. By the time a science teacher graduates, he/she should have thorough knowledge in their subject. Elementary school teachers are usually required to have intensive training in the liberal arts.
I wish that were true, but -- and I'm not meaning to sound as if I know the ins and outs of every university system -- at least in my state, students who wanted to become teachers by the traditional route majored not in science, English, math, or history, but in education. They were required to take classes in educational methods (which I found to be worse than useless, truly), and did not have to have a bachelor's degree in a content area. This means that some teachers, at least in that state, are teaching with what amounts to little more than a high school education in the core content areas (plus whatever core content areas they were required to take classes in as university undergraduates, which I believe amounted to very little).
Regrettably, at least in my experience -- and again, I've not seen every teacher in every state, just the ones in the three states I've taught over the years -- many teachers, even at the high school level, have very superficial knowledge of their subjects. Some are outstanding educators and I'm proud to have worked with them, but many, even most, are not really in that category.
Believe me, Sam, your method would be far better. If you or I were in charge, it sounds like we'd have similar ideas: have teachers really be experts in their subject matters. That would be an outstanding idea. Unfortunately, it's not usually the case, at least in my experience.
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I know what I'm about to say may sound rude, but I'll say it anyway. I have met many parents that can BARELY construct a sentence or add two simple fractions. These people should NOT be allowed to home school. I'm not saying that all parents are like that. I just want to make sure that all children get the best education that they can, whether it be in a traditional school or from their parents.
I can tell you from experience that it is very hard to teach something you know very little about. I put myself in that situation once, and I will never do it again.
I'm not comfortable with people who have little knowledge of a subject being responsible for teaching it either -- but for me, this discomfort applies to either homeschool or public/private school teachers.
The 1990 Science Report Card surveyed almost 20,000 students in grades four, eight, and 12. The survey demonstrates that there is no relationship between the science achievement of students and the certification level or advanced degrees of their teachers. For instance, eighth-graders taught by teachers who had finished six or more college physics courses had virtually the same proficiency as those teachers who had no courses in physics.10
That may well be true for 8th graders, who are taking "general science". Virtually every college requires students to take at least one science course, so even the teachers who haven't taken any physics have taken some science. It's not until high school, usually, but not always, sophomore year, that kids start to take specialty science courses (biology, chemistry, physics).
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Originally Posted by Charles Wallace
I wish that were true, but -- and I'm not meaning to sound as if I know the ins and outs of every university system -- at least in my state, students who wanted to become teachers by the traditional route majored not in science, English, math, or history, but in education. They were required to take classes in educational methods (which I found to be worse than useless, truly), and did not have to have a bachelor's degree in a content area. This means that some teachers, at least in that state, are teaching with what amounts to little more than a high school education in the core content areas (plus whatever core content areas they were required to take classes in as university undergraduates, which I believe amounted to very little).
Regrettably, at least in my experience -- and again, I've not seen every teacher in every state, just the ones in the three states I've taught over the years -- many teachers, even at the high school level, have very superficial knowledge of their subjects. Some are outstanding educators and I'm proud to have worked with them, but many, even most, are not really in that category.
Believe me, Sam, your method would be far better. If you or I were in charge, it sounds like we'd have similar ideas: have teachers really be experts in their subject matters. That would be an outstanding idea. Unfortunately, it's not usually the case, at least in my experience.
I'm not comfortable with people who have little knowledge of a subject being responsible for teaching it either -- but for me, this discomfort applies to either homeschool or public/private school teachers.
In this state, a prospective teacher must major in a subject, not education. S/he then takes the ed courses and the student teaching.
I stand by my opinion that home schooled parents should be required to take some college courses, even if the courses are online. There would be an uproar if teachers were allowed to teach without degrees. In NY, you cannot even be a substitute in the public schools without a Bachelor's degree.
You don't go to college to learn student's learning styles. You go to learn more about the topic(s) that you will teach and about human developement. You student-teach to gain some experience.
I'm not saying that parents need degrees in education, but they should be requried to take classes or at least take tests, which will prove that they have enough knowledge in the content areas that they will teach.
I understand why you go to college ! Again, what I'm saying is that if you are teaching your own child/children, it wouldn't make sense to take classes that are absolutely useless, imho. Anyone can open up a book and teach from it, that is why they make "Teachers Manuals", that tells me every teacher needs and uses them.
There are great teachers in public school who have a gift for teaching and there are others that if you call them mediocre, it would be a compliment. The same is true with parents who homeschool. Unfortunately, you can't find much of a correlation between education and the ability to be a gifted teacher. If we could, then we could solve the issue of this country's declining education status.
While homeschooling my children, I think the greatest gift I was able to share was the joy of learning. I don't have all the answers to spit out to them. But what I could share is the joy of researching something and learning about it. When my children ask something I don't know the answer to, I fully admit that and off we would go to research it. I would say that I learned just as much as they did in our homeschooling journey.
You don't need a degree to be a curious learner and to share that with children, unfortunately our public schools are not excelling in that area.
I must say golfgal that if you are a teacher you need to be aware of the needs of your students. My children tell me that the teachers yell at them also, you can not tell me that it does not happen. I believe my kids do try to cover up things they do by not always telling the truth but, I also think that adults in order to cover up their behavior will say kids are lying and how do you prove that the adults in charge of your childrens education are doing all they should. As I told the principal today at my sons school there is a fine line between protecting/sticking up for my child and making sure they know from right and wrong and choose the road of right. I agree with michiganmom48 and my children are older. My older son is at the point that he may not graduate because the level of work and the amount is rediculous. There has got to be a better way for children to learn and not feel overwhelmed by it. If any one can tell me of any programs that are accredited in Michigan that I can use through home I would greatly appreciate it. I do not know that I would be qualified to teach the two of them without some outside help.
Scaredmom2, if you are interested in homeschooling but think you can't do it, check into the regulations for your state and then search out homeschool support groups and co-ops in your area. There are many, many options out there for homeschoolers and you would be surprised to find out that there is plenty of outside help available to those that need it.
scaredmom - this is not for everyone, but my back-up plan if I decide to hs my oldest is Seton. Its an online accredited Catholic K-12 school. Its definitely a Catholic school, so its not for everyone.
They do assessment tests prior to your child starting the curriculum, and there are teachers to whom the child submits assignments. You get a fully structured curriculum.
So, its also not for everyone b/c some homeschoolers prefer to select their own curriculum. But, if you want prepackaged, accredited, with teachers, this is one program that offers that. I would bet there are other programs out there just like this that are not Catholic.
I am a mother of seven, and my kids have all been home schooled their whole lives. While choosing to home school them was a personal choice my husband and I made for what best suited our family, we both had wonderful experience in public and private schools.
My kids are great kids. They are well educated, out-going, and have exceptional manners. (I could go on and on...) We know a few home schooled kids who aren't that way; we know a few public school kids who are, and a few who aren't.
The bottom line is: different schools and methods of schoolings work for different families and their children. I just don't understand the hostility on this board. Some of the posts (from both sides) were well thought out and insightful, but most were judgments and attacks. Why can't we just live and let live?
MichiganMom, I hope home schooling turned out to be everything you hoped it would for you and your children. All the best.
Again, I am not bashing, I am genuinely interested in learning how a parent goes about preparing thier child for the real world...for the college experience... if they aren't among their peers and in a social environment...
Anyone care to explain their routine and how you go about it? I think it would clear up a lot of stigmas in the whole Home School Debate... Thanks
Well, we don't HS yet, but our DD (9yrs old (10 next month) in 4th grade), is involved in quite a few things. She is in MMA classes, swim classes at the YMCA, and she is also involved in Rainbow Girls (a Masonic org for girls w/male family members who are Masons), not to mention she has a TON of friends we see daily, on our walks and she is a social butterfly, and has friends of all ages.
That is above and beyond socialization, IMO; since most school aged kids don't even get half of that.
We plan on trying out the HS thing this summer, and if it doesn't work, we will be driving 45 min one way to take her to a new school in the fall. But we have field trips planned out where we will go to the zoo, the vet's office, the museum, the courthouse, the bank, 2 local colleges, the hospital, and various other places. Not only to have fun, but to learn as well. We will do a lesson on paper, then go outside and do it hands on in "learning labs". Since she wants to be a vet, we are focusing her education around that, in addition to the basics.
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