Way to improve public schools? (the ACT, wages, teacher, money)

[TouchOfWhimsy]

Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson

I don't mean to depart from the OP by this question: Does anybody here home school their kids? The reason I ask this is that there could be elements of home schooling that could apply to public schools.

Also, if you home school, do you do it yourself or do you have a network? That is, if you "Don't know much about 'rithmetic" do you have a parent friend who does?

I homeschool my children. I take full responsibility for my children's educations, but I do delegate certain parts. While we talk about and read the Bible at home, they go to Bible study (it's for homeschoolers) and Junior Church/Sunday School to learn more. My son takes karate and my daughter takes ballet. As they get older, I imagine that they will take classes at the local community college as the need/desire arises.

We do have a network of homeschooling friends, of course. We belong to a homeschooling group and go on field trips, have meetings, have park days in the spring and summer, etc.

Homeschoolers have access to excellent curricular materials, and they come with teachers' manuals. Believe it or not, teaching out of a book is not in the least bit difficult. If you can read, you can teach out of a teachers' manual. Many homeschoolers don't use those curriculums, of course.... but they are available for those who want/need them. We use a curriculum for math.

I think that spending years in school makes people think that they need someone to tell them what to do, what comes next. If parents have common sense and know their limitations (i.e. a poor speller should probably have access to some sort of spelling and grammar curriculum so that they can learn along with their child), once they try homeschooling, they realize that it's not rocket science. I kind of laugh when people say "oh, I"m not smart enough to homeschool." Really? If 12 years of public school (plus college in some cases) did not give you what you need to teach your own second grader how to write a complete sentence and add two-digit numbers, do you really want to trust your child to that same system??

Someone said that homeschoolers must test their kids... that actually depends on the state. I have been fortunate to homeschool only in states where testing is not required. In many states, evaluation and testing are not necessary at all, in others testing can be substituted with some other form of evaluation, and a few states are highly regulated.

[TabulaRasa]

Do you feel your children will be sufficiently well-prepared for collegiate-level curriculum and any testing that it may include (assuming they'll be continuing their schooling at that level)?

[TouchOfWhimsy]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

Do you feel your children will be sufficiently well-prepared for collegiate-level curriculum and any testing that it may include (assuming they'll be continuing their schooling at that level)?

Absolutely.

[Charles Wallace]

Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson

I don't mean to depart from the OP by this question: Does anybody here home school their kids? The reason I ask this is that there could be elements of home schooling that could apply to public schools.

Also, if you home school, do you do it yourself or do you have a network? That is, if you "Don't know much about 'rithmetic" do you have a parent friend who does?

Yes, we do. We do it ourselves, although our child attends a "network" science class, but that's basically for fun. We assume the primary responsibility.

[Charles Wallace]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

I'm torn on homeschooling, overall. I think it can be done very well, but I suspect there are a lot of people homeschooling their kids who don't know what they're doing.

Unfortunately -- and I say this with deepest regret as a teacher -- I suspect there are a lot of people schooling other people's kids who don't know what they're doing. At least in my experience, this has proven (too often) to be true.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

Do you feel your children will be sufficiently well-prepared for collegiate-level curriculum and any testing that it may include (assuming they'll be continuing their schooling at that level)?

Our HomeSchool kids both graduated from difficult college programs with those gold tassle doo-dad's around their necks . Several of their HomeSchool friends are DR's, scientists, teachers, military officers ... (tho I know of one 'drop-out' too) . They are often 'leadership material', as evidenced in my hiring of both Home and Public schooled kids on my farm... the Home kids didn't need to be told every step, and were 'proactive' to identify tasks and responsibilities 'outside' of their job description (and DO THEM ).

Back to topic... RE: the US edu system and improving it...

currently USA edu (especially higher level) is coasting on momentum that we USED to be the destination of choice for quality edu. (intellectual, freedom of thought, innovation) No longer true. (Academia has been disseminated world wide and is very accessible; freedom is still good, but not very 'broad-based / informed' from a global perspective (which is key to future thought / leadership); Innovation is waning as we digress from tangible activities and product generation... we no longer 'tinker' in our garages)

• Look to our results and trends on international rankings
• compare content to what 'other countries' offer / require
• identify USA's strategic direction for providing world leadership
• look to future USA 'value add' to world economy (if you can figure that out...)
  
• then verifywe are best equipping the generations that will be competing with global intellect and supporting us as 'retirees'.

Are you satisfied with what we have done and that they will be ready to take the gauntlet, as well as identify and address these contributions for subsequent generations?

don't "Drop-the-ball", if you are in a position to improve the game.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

Do you feel your children will be sufficiently well-prepared for collegiate-level curriculum and any testing that it may include (assuming they'll be continuing their schooling at that level)?

Our HomeSchool kids both graduated from difficult college programs with those gold tassle doo-dad's around their necks . Several of their HomeSchool friends are DR's, scientists, teachers, military officers ... (tho I know of one 'drop-out' too) . They are often 'leadership material', as evidenced in my hiring of both Home and Public schooled kids on my farm... the Home kids didn't need to be told every step, and were 'proactive' to identify tasks and responsibilities 'outside' of their job description (and DO THEM ).

Back to topic... RE: the US edu system and improving it...

currently USA edu (especially higher level) is coasting on momentum that we USED to be the destination of choice for quality edu. (intellectual, freedom of thought, innovation) No longer true. (Academia has been disseminated world wide and is very accessible; freedom is still good, but not very 'broad-based / informed' from a global perspective (which is key to future thought / leadership); Innovation is waning as we digress from tangible activities and product generation... we no longer 'tinker' in our garages)

• Look to our results and trends on international rankings
• compare content to what 'other countries' offer / require (languages, math, science, arts, health, life skills)
• identify USA's strategic direction for providing world leadership (good luck)
• look to future USA 'value add' to world economy (if you can figure that out...) (we really 'shot-ourselves-in-the-foot' by bankrupting the public employee's investment funds of foreigners... they have much longer memories than US)
  
• then verify we are best equipping the generations that will be competing with global intellect and supporting us as 'retirees'.

Are you satisfied with what we have done and that they will be ready to take the gauntlet, as well as identify and address these contributions for subsequent generations?

don't "Drop-the-ball", if you are in a position to improve the game.

[TabulaRasa]

I get what you're saying, but I don't think it necessarily follows that students who are products of traditional school environment will lack initiative, problem-sovling skills, or need to be spoonfed information, either. I would never presume to say that a public or private school education doesn't teach kids to think, just as I wouldn't presume to say it about those who are tutored at home.

[TabulaRasa]

Originally Posted by Charles Wallace

Unfortunately -- and I say this with deepest regret as a teacher -- I suspect there are a lot of people schooling other people's kids who don't know what they're doing. At least in my experience, this has proven (too often) to be true.

I would agree as well, but it seems that there are more checks and balances in a regulated school system. From my admittedly limited knowledge of homeschooling, I wasn't sure how thoroughly it's regulated. It seems as if there could be greater potential for inept teaching to go on. I'm sure even the most competent homeschool parents/instructors would admit that they're aware of homeschool students who are not being taught to the fullest, just as we can all identify public and private school teachers who are doing a crappy job.

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by janb

Back to topic... RE: the US edu system and improving it...

currently USA edu (especially higher level) is coasting on momentum that we USED to be the destination of choice for quality edu. (intellectual, freedom of thought, innovation) No longer true. (Academia has been disseminated world wide and is very accessible; freedom is still good, but not very 'broad-based / informed' from a global perspective (which is key to future thought / leadership); Innovation is waning as we digress from tangible activities and product generation... we no longer 'tinker' in our garages)

• Look to our results and trends on international rankings
• compare content to what 'other countries' offer / require
• identify USA's strategic direction for providing world leadership
• look to future USA 'value add' to world economy (if you can figure that out...)
  
• then verify we are best equipping the generations that will be competing with global intellect and supporting us as 'retirees'.

Are you satisfied with what we have done and that they will be ready to take the gauntlet, as well as identify and address these contributions for subsequent generations?

We are NOT adequately equipping the generations that will be competing with global intellect, and they therefore will NOT be capable of supporting the vast number of retirees that will increase exponentially in the not too distant future - not to mention the exponentially increasing number of people who are/will be in need of taxpayer funded social services.

This will come as a very rude surprise to educators who consider their promised future pension benefits as a "given." If they were being honest with themselves, they would realize it's time to rethink the permanence of their future pensions.

It seems a lot of people outside of the education field clearly recognize the likely consequences of our country's intellectual capital shortfall in an increasingly global economy, and the subsequent negative impact that will have on our society . Educators, though, seem to be completely oblivious to the impending societal danger of undereducating so many students - especially those who would be capable of achieving much more if they were provided an education appropriate to their ability/skill levels. Why is that? Why must so many students be held back at artificially low levels?