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As others have posted, the 'family' supports it - when a family decides their kid is gonna make it, all resources of everyone involved goes in to support that and there is little if any allowance for the kid(s) to deviate. We know some kids of asian families that have this study first attitude so ingrained in them, they rather read a book for recreation than go to a movie or play a video game! Others don't aspire to be as studious, but stick very close to culture, respecting elders, working in the family business or just working period. Now some of the Asians we've met that are born and bred here differ so much from those that weren't ... they are your typical kid, maybe they are smart and maybe they are creative and maybe they are neither. Just depends.
Why then if thread after thread points to ethics and family values as the reason for academic success among Asians can't people in America follow the model? What should change in America, and is that change possible? Is the American family structure weak in many places and what can be done to start changing that for the good?
Why then if thread after thread points to ethics and family values as the reason for academic success among Asians can't people in America follow the model? What should change in America, and is that change possible? Is the American family structure weak in many places and what can be done to start changing that for the good?
This will change when Americans begin to seek and take individual responsibility for themselves, their families, and their choices.
This would bring a return to the study of practical and scientific fields, or we could continue to have liberal art degree holders delivering our pizzas and selling us our used cars.
FWIW, my better half, who is Asian became an engineer after her father told her it would be a good idea to have an engineer in the family. Imagine that. I think he was right.
A very large proportion of [East] Asians who come to the US are well-educated in mathematics and/or science. Given that education is of paramount importance in many Asian cultures, when they raise a family in the US, they are actively involved in their children's education.
My dad immigrated from Taiwan to the US to do his PhD in econometrics, so he's obviously pretty good at math. In addition to what I learned in school, he'd take the time to go over my schoolwork with me and teach me stuff that I hadn't yet learned in class.
Because education is highly valued in Asian cultues. A good education is usually the precursor to a high paying job. They want their kids to grow up and be successful. Being good at math and science usually leads to a good job.
I wish more westerners would kick their kids tails for not trying in school.
But fewer Asian student succeed in Liberal Arts Subjects.
Do you think it is genetic difference?
First of all, science and math ARE liberal art, so your question is based on false premise.
Secondly, Asians, here I mean Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, traditionally place extremely high social prestige on academic success. All three cultures are heavily influenced by Confucianism. In China, Confucianism was the de facto state ideology for 2000 years. During that 2000 years, the only legitimate way for a commoner to rise to becoming a member of ruling class was to study hard and pass the exam on classic Confucian literature and philosophy. Study hard is the way to climb up social ladder, otherwise, no matter how rich you are, you are still not member of the social elite. That's the mindset of imperial China. That mindset has seeped into every aspect of Chinese, Japanese and Korean lives (because of heavy Chinese cultural influences on these two countries). And it still heavily influences these 3 countries today. That's why Asian families push their kids much harder and expect much more from their kids. It's not just a elite thing, there was a poor half-literate peasant father in China committing suicide because he felt ashamed for not being able to pay his son's college tuition.
Thirdly, as mentioned by somebody else above, Korean, Japanese and Chinese living in the US are much more likely to be highly educated professionals or offspring of highly educated professionals, people of that background are more likely to place high value on education and have the financial resources to provide good education environment for their kids. Although I don't believe it's a determining factor cuz other Asians coming from much different family background, such as kids of Vietnamese boat people, are doing just as well academically as kids from better family background.
In sum, Asian's relative success is a by-product of a culture that places extremely high prestige on academic success, especially in academic disciplines where success produces hard result that nobody can deny its usefulness. Science, technology and math are such disciplines. That's probably part of the reason why Asians, regardless of their national origin, are the most politically passive racial group in America. Even for countries with a democratic political system, Asians are much much much less vocal in their support for the so called "spread of democracy", you see Americans support sanctions or even invasions to change other nations' political system, you see Europeans burn, shout and boycott to protest this or that authoritarian regime, you rarely see Japanese or South Korean go on the street to express their problems against political systems of foreign countries. Asians simply have different priorities, their relative success in academia and relative absence in politics are just reflection of their priorities. So are the academic disciplines they excel or shun.
First of all, science and math ARE liberal art, so your question is based on false premise.
Secondly, Asians, here I mean Chinese, Koreans and Japanese, traditionally place extremely high social prestige on academic success. All three cultures are heavily influenced by Confucianism. In China, Confucianism was the de facto state ideology for 2000 years. During that 2000 years, the only legitimate way for a commoner to rise to becoming a member of ruling class was to study hard and pass the exam on classic Confucian literature and philosophy. Study hard is the way to climb up social ladder, otherwise, no matter how rich you are, you are still not member of the social elite. That's the mindset of imperial China. That mindset has seeped into every aspect of Chinese, Japanese and Korean lives (because of heavy Chinese cultural influences on these two countries). And it still heavily influences these 3 countries today. That's why Asian families push their kids much harder and expect much more from their kids. It's not just a elite thing, there was a poor half-literate peasant father in China committing suicide because he felt ashamed for not being able to pay his son's college tuition.
Thirdly, as mentioned by somebody else above, Korean, Japanese and Chinese living in the US are much more likely to be highly educated professionals or offspring of highly educated professionals, people of that background are more likely to place high value on education and have the financial resources to provide good education environment for their kids. Although I don't believe it's a determining factor cuz other Asians coming from much different family background, such as kids of Vietnamese boat people, are doing just as well academically as kids from better family background.
In sum, Asian's relative success is a by-product of a culture that places extremely high prestige on academic success, especially in academic disciplines where success produces hard result that nobody can deny its usefulness. Science, technology and math are such disciplines. That's probably part of the reason why Asians, regardless of their national origin, are the most politically passive racial group in America. Even for countries with a democratic political system, Asians are much much much less vocal in their support for the so called "spread of democracy", you see Americans support sanctions or even invasions to change other nations' political system, you see Europeans burn, shout and boycott to protest this or that authoritarian regime, you rarely see Japanese or South Korean go on the street to express their problems against political systems of foreign countries. Asians simply have different priorities, their relative success in academia and relative absence in politics are just reflection of their priorities. So are the academic disciplines they excel or shun.
I really enjoyed reading your response and it is so spot on. It is not genetics but a cultural belief that academics and family beyond all else. Americans who push there kids are more likely to push them toward a MBA or JD instead of a PHD. It is strictly cultural.
Macroy you are absolutely right. I also have a few friends who are asian and have gone to medical or dental schools only because that's what their parents wanted them to do, when in reality isn't not what they themselves wanted to do. And most asians that I know now are doing what they want and not listening to what their relatives or parents are telling them to do. I also think that some asians feel that if their a computer programmer or a scientist in asia that it's just as good in the united states and I have a strange feeling that asians are starting to rethink that logic. What happens in Asia isn't necessarily the same in the United States.
Macroy you are absolutely right. I also have a few friends who are asian and have gone to medical or dental schools only because that's what their parents wanted them to do, when in reality isn't not what they themselves wanted to do. And most asians that I know now are doing what they want and not listening to what their relatives or parents are telling them to do. I also think that some asians feel that if their a computer programmer or a scientist in asia that it's just as good in the united states and I have a strange feeling that asians are starting to rethink that logic. What happens in Asia isn't necessarily the same in the United States.
As assimilation deepens, Asians will gradually become less of a stereotypical geeks who are freakishly smart but socially, politically and culturally passive or even awkward. But this process will be slow because of 2 factors:
1. Asian Americans are the fastest growing segment of US population. However assimilated into mainstream American society 2nd, 3rd or 4th generation Asian Americans have become, newly arrived Asian immigrants will keep the culture of great emphasis on academic success and the image of Asians being smart but geeky alive.
2. American society is still very much a society defined by race. Whites are still much more likely to hang out with whites, blacks are still much more likely to hang out with blacks, Asians are still much more likely to hang out with Asians. Because of the difference in physical appearance, it would be much more difficult for Asians to completely assimilate into so called "mainstream" American culture (which, to this moment, remains a culture dominated by whites, just turn on the TV and see how different the America depicted by Hollywood from the real America we see and interact everyday) than, say German Americans or French Americans. As a result of real or perceived discrimination/marginalization, Asians are more likely than whites to stick to their own culture consciously or subconsciously.
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