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Entire world or just industrialized nations? Comapared to many countries that do not participate in TIMMS, we're FANTASTIC but we're pretty low among those that do.
1. What would you change? I think the expectation that every high school student needs (and can manage) the same classes is asinine.
I also think the trend toward huge mega-complex schools (over 2000 in high schools, easily 12-1600 in middle schools, and elementaries with nearly a thousand) is absurd and completely unmanageable. Cut in half those numbers would still be too big.
Summer break is a great time for children to get bored, get into trouble, and lose ground; admittedly it's also a huge money-maker for theme parks, babysitters, and the summer camp industry. We could easily cut it in half, as well, though the NEA would undoubtedly shriek like a thousand banshees.
In Florida (and in states with similar programs) I'd open McKay Scholarship monies to parents who homeschool their children.
I'd cut class sizes drastically.
I'd hire outside auditors (preferably those with too little caffeine in their systems and a bad case of OCD) to go over the county school budget with a fine toothed comb.
In our county, I'd lay off at least 25% of the administrative personnel, cancel everyone's car allowance, and cut the superintendent's pay by 20%. (If we're supposed to see an improvement in directorship with higher salaries, why did we have to bail out the banks?)
I'd stop watering down gifted programs, and enforce the idea that the I in IEP is supposed to mean individual. You don't design an IEP to the diagnosis, you design it to the child.
I reserve the right to add to this list.
And then I'd probably still homeschool. <g>
2. Is it getting better (as time goes on)? It's just...different. If I look at it purely from the POV of having been a bright, neurotypical kid in an average, mostly Irish-German neighborhood (in which about a third of the kids went to parochial school) in the 60s, it looks worse. OTOH, in that world, there were no gifted programs. There were really no SpEd kids either, because they were shunted off to some "dummy class" ghetto. A boy in my first grade class was constantly sitting under the teacher's desk as time out; in retrospect he was classically ADHD. Teachers could, and would, smack the crap out of you if you looked at them crosswise. OTOH, we still had vo-techs for the kids who were non-college-bound, and I think getting rid of that track was hideously stupid. Not every child needs to be taking AP classes and preparing for college.
I have no opinion on dress code changes. Have one, don't have one, just make it logical if you do. In fact, if you're going to have a strict dress code, just have the old school plaid uniforms and be done with it. Some of the skankiest-looking schoolkids I've ever seen were wearing khaki shorts and polos in a rainbow of colors. OTOH, if the kids have to dress like that, I want male teachers in ties, and Ms. XXXX has to wear a slip under that lightweight cotton skirt. Modesty isn't only about length, ladies.
3. Who is responsible for it being bad? 4. Who is responsible for it being good? I think these are both the same question, and responsibility lies with parents, teachers, kids, and administrators. Though I'd probably give more credit for the completely idiotic ideas and actions to administrators and school boards, based on personal experience.
Rating an entire nation's public education system compared to other nations'? That's tough. None the less, I'd say that America's in the top 5. Americans may not score the highest on tests but I believe there's more to school than tests. Kids also learn ethics, trust, who they are, and how to treat others. Staff members are not only responsible for the kids' education, but also ensuring the kids' safety (from neglect or abuse).
Now, all that said... There are some areas in America that would fail in every aspect that I've mentioned. Though, it's not entirely the education's fault. A lot of it is the culture of the area... Regardless, as a whole, I think America does pretty darn good.
I, assumed, industrialized world and voted 3 out of 10. We don't make the grade in math or science. We don't prepare our kids for the job market. We also don't do well on international testing. I don't see us doing anything well.
How would I fix it? I'd go back to a tracked system. Bring back vocational high schools. Quit trying to make every child fit the college bound mold. I think we have a lot of drop outs who would have done fine trained to tech instead.
Who is responsible for the state of our schools? All of us. We insisted that schools were to prepare kids for college. We made that the goal. We decided that all children should have as a goal going to college. Then we passed No Child Left Behind. We're on the wrong track.
With all the high stakes testing, we teach to the bottom of the class because that's where we can see increases in scores. Fortunately, the top 10% of kids seem to do well no matter what. Our losses are in the next 15% who could do well if taught well but we're too busy trying to get the bottom 50% scoring higher. Fortunately, the kids in the middle do ok because tactics for lower level learners actually work well with them.
To the person who repped me with the comment "I thought public school was the proven method", it is. It's the standard other methods are measured against. If they don't outperform public school when factors like demographics are considered, they are unproven by comparison. Something doesn't have to be perfect to be the best we have right now and being the best we have right now doesn't mean it can't be improved. The question is how should it be improved. IMO, we should be looking at countries that educate their children well and taking a lesson not throwing the baby out with the bathwater and the tub too by reinventing the wheel. We could learn a lot from Asian countries.
How would I fix it? I'd go back to a tracked system. Bring back vocational high schools. Quit trying to make every child fit the college bound mold. I think we have a lot of drop outs who would have done fine trained to tech instead.
This I can agree with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Who is responsible for the state of our schools? All of us. We insisted that schools were to prepare kids for college. We made that the goal. We decided that all children should have as a goal going to college. Then we passed No Child Left Behind. We're on the wrong track.
I'm taking no responsibility for this one. WE did no such thing. Y'all might have, but neither the decision, nor the bletherin' idiot responsible for NCLB, were my doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
With all the high stakes testing, we teach to the bottom of the class because that's where we can see increases in scores. Fortunately, the top 10% of kids seem to do well no matter what. Our losses are in the next 15% who could do well if taught well but we're too busy trying to get the bottom 50% scoring higher. Fortunately, the kids in the middle do ok because tactics for lower level learners actually work well with them.
If even its adherents have so little confidence as to rank it three-of-ten, is it really a wonder people leave the system?
To the person who repped me with the comment "I thought public school was the proven method", it is. It's the standard other methods are measured against. If they don't outperform public school when factors like demographics are considered, they are unproven by comparison. Something doesn't have to be perfect to be the best we have right now and being the best we have right now doesn't mean it can't be improved. The question is how should it be improved. IMO, we should be looking at countries that educate their children well and taking a lesson not throwing the baby out with the bathwater and the tub too by reinventing the wheel. We could learn a lot from Asian countries.
Of course, in our haste to worship Eastern educational systems, let us not forget that the suicide rate amongst Japanese students is significantly higher than in the US.
Of course, in our haste to worship Eastern educational systems, let us not forget that the suicide rate amongst Japanese students is significantly higher than in the US.
And you know this is because of their education system? What is the causal relationship here?
The things about their education system I'd emmulate are the longer school year, help outside of school hours for students who are falling behind and going in debth in a few areas of a subject instead of glossing over many topics and creating jack of all trade master of none students.
Which of these do you think will lead to higher suicide rates?
Sorry dear but the higher suicide rates are more likely due to societal pressure to succeed not their education system. There is no doubt kids are pushed. I didn't say I'd emmulate pushing kids. I said I'd emmulate their education system. Believe it or not, you can learn from someone who does something better than you.
I'm taking no responsibility for this one. WE did no such thing. Y'all might have, but neither the decision, nor the bletherin' idiot responsible for NCLB, were my doing.
If even its adherents have so little confidence as to rank it three-of-ten, is it really a wonder people leave the system?
Look at who we're competing against. I give us a 3, maybe 4 out of 10 against industrialized nations who take TIMMS because of our insistance on teaching MORE MORE MORE in less time (Just listen to all the parents tell you how far ahead their kids are as if rushing the typical child through education is a good thing.). I remember when I was fighting EDM coming to our school district. I addressed a parents group about the issues involved in pulling down geometry and statistics concepts to kindergarten and tried to make the point that teaching fewer topics but teaching them better would serve our children best. One mother stood up and huffed, "I want my kids taught MORE not less". Only problem is when it comes to attaining understanding, less IS more. Too many parents think more topics mean more learned. There comes a point where you flit through topics so fast, kids don't have time to learn it.
I think we need to emmulate the more successful countries and the starting points should be a longer school year and fewer topics taught each year so what is taught can be taught more in depth. Especially in math.
Our insistance on keeping our short school year and teaching as many topics as possible are holding us back. Our kids have less time to learn and more time to forget. Yeah, I give us a 3 or 4 out of 10. I think we could jump, quickly, to about a 7 if we just lengthened the school year to match Asian countries. Our kids don't work the farm in the summer anymore.
We are as low as we are, in large part, because we have a 175 day school year compared to 220+ days in other countries. Their kids have, literally, had over three more years of school by the time they graduate. That makes a difference.
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What is the causal relationship here?
