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When you take an average classroom of say, twenty-five kids, you'll have every level of learners. While it's state mandated that I accommodate and modify for the slower and/or learning disabled, there is nothing mandated for the brightest in the class. Don't we owe them the best our public schools can offer? I see so many intelligent, capable kids that get bored out of their minds moving at a slower pace. The Gifted and Talented program falls under the umbrella of special ed - yet gets little to none of the money. It's a shame to see incredible potential stifled day after day. Imagine being a fifth grader learning about the Mayan civilization and your eager mind is like a sponge, but your teacher can't take the time to expand upon the lesson because she has to modify for half the class. Student A needs 2 copies of the overhead notes, one for him and one for his tutor. Student B has to have half of the multiple choice answers deleted on his study guide. Student C has to test orally. Student D needs an interpreter, and so on. Those modifications have been placed in the student's IEP (Individual Education Plan) and must happen every day or our school system will be sued. I don't begrudge any child an opportunity to learn and I'm still thrilled when that light bulb comes on for a student. However, we are slowly letting the brightest slip through the cracks and giving them an "average" education. Once those kids reach the high school level they are able to take AP and other challenging classes, but at the elementary and often middle school level they are vastly underserved. And that's when we lose them.
I agree completely!! I have two children, one is multiply physically disabled, to the point that we don't know what she knows because she has not enough use even of her hands to use sign language, or a special computer (waiting for the eye gaze system to arrive later this month!), so she has an IEP and was mainstreamed through 5th grade...when we moved (a whole different story). Yet, with NCLB, she still has to take the end of grade tests every year.....I've no clue how they make that happen, and I apologize to her every day for a week that it has to happen but she's a trooper and will eye gaze to her best ability
My other is gifted, tests higher, I think, than she's really capable of, but she was horribly bored in her regular classroom. We are teaching to the test now, NCLB, but the gifted kids are being left behind in many respects! Our system has a good program where the gifted kids are just in a different classroom during reading and/or math time, which is the same time as their regular classroom is doing reading and math. Works out great, however it's still the same curriculum, just more "in depth". IF she were more highly gifted this wouldn't work as well, but, at least for now, it's working well for her.
99% of the kids in the "gifted" program are not "gifted". They are bright kids but not truly gifted. Most parents don't really know what the difference is between a really good student and a "gifted" student.
I agree, school these days develops the left side of the brain too much (Technical/Info), while stagnating the right side (Creative)...
The role of the public school is to treat EVERYONE equally. I don't think "gifted" kids should get special treatment. If they finish their work, they should just sit there and read. We were always told to put our heads on our desk and sleep when an assignment was completed. Students can get their extra stimulation at home or elsewhere. The schools should not be incurring any additional expense to "challenge" your little Einstein.
I agree, school these days develops the left side of the brain too much (Technical/Info), while stagnating the right side (Creative)...
And it's getting worse. College programs are now cutting out the "fluff" or liberal arts courses from programs so people can finsish faster. I'm not sure what good all that left brain stuff is without creativity.
The role of the public school is to treat EVERYONE equally. I don't think "gifted" kids should get special treatment. If they finish their work, they should just sit there and read. We were always told to put our heads on our desk and sleep when an assignment was completed. Students can get their extra stimulation at home or elsewhere. The schools should not be incurring any additional expense to "challenge" your little Einstein.
I, actually, agree with you. Public education is for the public. It should be designed to fit the majority. The minority it doesn't fit should do the adapting unless there's some benefit to society in putting extra effort into certent groups. Public education is for the public. We don't call it individual education for a reason.
I had more than one student who'd just bring their homework for other classes to my class because they knew they'd get done before everyone else. What are you going to do? If I paced the class to them, I would have lost the rest. As it was, the bottom struggled.
I'm ok with tracking though. It adds no expense to the program. There is no reason I can't teach two levels of chemistry. One for higher level learners and one for students who struggle with the material. I'd love to teach two levels of physics. A math based physics for the college bound crowd (what I teach now) and a hands on version for kids who aren't planning on studying science in college but that requires lots of equipment I don't have. I like the physics first movement. I hope it gains momentum. My state is doing chemistry for all but I think physics is a better fit because you can experience it moreso than chemistry.
A gifted first-grader might be able to decode all the words in The Color Purple, sure, but it would not be a responsible decision to suggest he or she read it. Really, thank God for Jane Austen.
LOL! Yeah, try having a new college grad and a first grader in the house at the same time. The first grader's favorite pastime was "borrowing" her sister's books and reading them in her closet. Try explaining "Maus".
OTOH, the only book that's given her nightmares thus far was the Christian Bible. She's been looking over her shoulder for bears ever since.
I, actually, agree with you. Public education is for the public. It should be designed to fit the majority. The minority it doesn't fit should do the adapting unless there's some benefit to society in putting extra effort into certent groups. Public education is for the public. We don't call it individual education for a reason.
"Public" means "people". Not "some people". And actually, we do call it "individual education" when appropriate: do the letters IEP sound familiar? The "I" doesn't stand for Ivory.
"Public" means "people". Not "some people". And actually, we do call it "individual education" when appropriate: do the letters IEP sound familiar? The "I" doesn't stand for Ivory.
My point is that every child does not have an IEP. The IEP is for the case where the child cannot adapt. Do you even read my posts?
I think there is an inherent danger in programs that try to cater to every child. You're teaching that child they are the only one that counts. Life will not treat them like they are the only one who counts. Either you adjust to your job or you are fired. We had one teacher this year who insisted on doing things her way. She was let go. I saw a couple of engineers let go in the last lab I worked in because they thought life was ll about them and how they wanted to do things. They didn't like that the customer calls the shots (we all grumbled about customer requests but most of us did them because it was our job).
That's not to say that we shouldn't try to have best fit classes available. There is enough difference across the spectrum to make educating all kids in the same class kind of difficult. The two tiered split at my dd's school seems to work well but it should be up to the child to push themselves onto the upper track. If they don't have that much ambition, they probably don't belong there.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 08-08-2009 at 08:05 AM..
Well, if the parents that are suing the schools for the gifted program driving up costs they should check out the school budget to find that most schools spend the majority of their money on the special ed programs-especially if you figure out the cost per student for these programs. Would they deny the special ed kids these programs too?
99% of the kids in the "gifted" program are not "gifted". They are bright kids but not truly gifted. Most parents don't really know what the difference is between a really good student and a "gifted" student.
I agree with you. The Gifted program is also part of the special ed department. All school districts get special ed money for their Gate kids. My school has a GATE Lead teacher, and teachers are paid extra duty pay for after school enrichment programs just for GATE students.
Also, many people have this assumption that Special ed kids are your phyisically challenged or learning disabled child. But students who are designated as "Gifted" are also under that same Special Ed umbrella. Gifted doesn't mean that they child will automatically be a high achiever. I have had many designated Gifted students in my classoom, and some of them were behaviorial problems and had poor work habits. So it has been a misconception regarding GATE kids are automatically your high achieving students who are quiet in class and just want to please the teacher.
From my experience as well, GATE kids are typically you students who had odd behavior, very inquisitive, and in some cases have poor social skills. Some of them are perfectionists as well, meaning that they don't like getting the wrong answer, and if they get the wrong answer, then they don't want to try again either. As I am typing this, I was a designated GATE kid remember how I was in the classroom, and I was never challenged because at that time there was no curriculum designed to help teachers provide activities for us to do.
I think there is an inherent danger in programs that try to cater to every child. You're teaching that child they are the only one that counts.
No. By acknowledging the different ways people do things, the different ways they learn and their unique abilities and challenges, you are teaching them that they count every bit as much as the kid next to them.
I haven't found intransigence to be a problem with homeschooled kids. I haven't found it to be a particular problem with private- or publicly- schooled kids, either. I've run into it with a couple of individuals, but it isn't anything to do with where they spend their days (one is at parochial school, one is a public schooler). Mostly it's just garden variety narcissism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
That's not to say that we shouldn't try to have best fit classes available. There is enough difference across the spectrum to make educating all kids in the same class kind of difficult. The two tiered split at my dd's school seems to work well but it should be up to the child to push themselves onto the upper track. If they don't have that much ambition, they probably don't belong there.
I don't think it's always about ambition or desire. It can be-- but it can also be simply that abilities are not bestowed evenly at the start-off. I'll agree that different tracks of classess really should be the way to go, though. Not every kid is college material, and not every kid could find his way around a machine shop or art studio.
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