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Old 05-16-2010, 03:34 PM
 
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and perhaps what we can learn from them: The Finnish miracle - Academics & Activities | GreatSchools
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Old 05-16-2010, 06:41 PM
 
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Thanks for posting this. A world of difference.
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:06 PM
 
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Interesting, but as the article suggests it may be difficult to translate Finnish teaching practices to a multicultural environment like the US where teaching standards vary not only vary from state to state but district to district. Also, despite the high achievement of Finnish hs students, we don't see a direct correlation to higher GDP per capita or even higher rank on the Human Development Index vis-a-vis the US or other OECD nations. I would be more interested in what the Norwegians or Australians are doing (:
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Old 05-16-2010, 07:26 PM
hsw
 
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K-12 stuff is useless if lack leading engineering schools and lack ability to create valuable new, innovative cos. like Google, Apple, etc

Japan was allegedly going to take over world if one believed nonsense in popular media of ~25yrs ago (supposedly with vastly better educated kids in K-12), much like worship of China or India by the clueless of modern era...
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokingGun View Post
Interesting, but as the article suggests it may be difficult to translate Finnish teaching practices to a multicultural environment like the US where teaching standards vary not only vary from state to state but district to district. Also, despite the high achievement of Finnish hs students, we don't see a direct correlation to higher GDP per capita or even higher rank on the Human Development Index vis-a-vis the US or other OECD nations. I would be more interested in what the Norwegians or Australians are doing (:
I agree. The Scandinavian countries have had great success with their schools and other social programs. Yet, relative wealth and a more homogeneous society help.

That said, there are some aspects of the Finnish system that folks in education have been pushing for. The first is restoring the professional standard for teachers. So many districts are so scared that teachers will screw up that all lesson plans for the year are carefully scripted. Some principals and district administrators will let you go off script to meet your students' needs, but others hold teachers accountable for staying on top of the order and pacing of lessons and delivering them exactly as written. If all school children were the same and teachers never burnt out with boredom, this might work. NCLB has encouraged such cookie-cutter approaches that destroy the soul of pedagogy.

I think we also need to remember that learning is to take place during class time. Too often, we force children to do the "real" work at home. Diligent children lose out on childhood as they work late into the night on school work. Slacker children don't do all/any of the work and miss out on the meat of instruction. Of course, we have to re-evaluate the mile-wide but inch-deep breadth of knowledge that we require children to "learn" if we are to reform this approach.

Sending all children to preschool would also make a huge difference. We've known how important pre-literacy activities are for some time, particularly for low-income children; such research was the driving force behind Head Start. Unfortunately, many districts can not even afford to offer full-day kindergarten.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Clovis Strong, NM
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I also heard another thing they do in Europe is get children prepped for a career track from the time they start going to school.
This way by the time they get done with high school, they'll know what path to take once they head to college, tech-school and such.

I think it puts a strain on many universities/colleges when you've got so many students consistently switching majors every couple of years.
Better to stick to one track and kick the indecisiveness to the curb.
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Old 05-18-2010, 03:40 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
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I find it interesting that esteem for teachers is flipped. I think the fact that we view our teachers as people who can't handle the real world (even here I've been accused of having "washed out" as an engineer because I chose to change careers to teaching.) When you don't respect what those who teach you do, how much are you going to get from them?

I have had professors who convinced me they shouldn't have been professors and they blur into my memory. I've had others who I held in high esteem and they stand out. Perhaps it is time to start making teahing credentials harder to get so that it's not a fall back occupation.

IMO, it all boils down to attitude about education.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
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The Finnish Socialist government is not comparable to the United States. Perhaps if we weren't bent on keep troops in every other nation, and fighting continuous wars everywhere, we would have the time and money to properly support our education structures.

I listened to a local candidate for state Governer said that he wanted to improve the schools and reduce the taxes. Sounds like a great idea to me. Take away the money and improve the operation. Nobody would say we could reduce the cost of the military but improve its effectiveness with less tanks, guns, and bullets. What a stupid thing to say.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
The Finnish Socialist government is not comparable to the United States. Perhaps if we weren't bent on keep troops in every other nation, and fighting continuous wars everywhere, we would have the time and money to properly support our education structures.

I listened to a local candidate for state Governer said that he wanted to improve the schools and reduce the taxes. Sounds like a great idea to me. Take away the money and improve the operation. Nobody would say we could reduce the cost of the military but improve its effectiveness with less tanks, guns, and bullets. What a stupid thing to say.
The article pointed out that less is spent per student in Finland than in the US...
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Bar Harbor, ME
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers29 View Post
The article pointed out that less is spent per student in Finland than in the US...
In the US everywhere? Using what international money scale? Compared to what school system in the US? Compared to which state in the US?

Compared to what what what? There's no comparisons to any numbers or anything. Its a fluff article. Are you suggesting that someone in the USA pay for free preschool and free college for everyone? Finland is a socialist state. To make that happen here we would have to do as I said.

Z

p.s: My district spends way less per pupil than Finland does, and has some of the best schools in the state. Maybey we should have an article about the miracle of my school district.
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