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[quote=malamute;3004216]I read the whole thing. And it's obvious that it isn't just the infrastructure here making the more educated leave. And it's not just jobs making the whites, blacks, and American hispanics leave.
Some people dont have a clue what the word infrastructure means, whithout it you dont have any organization including the ways and means of obtaining an education.
In El Paso it spells simply one thing, DISFUNCTIONAL CITY AFTER CITY ADMINISTRATIONS including County Government (botton line) it only takes about three or four city administrators to offset city politics and NE El Paso's representation is one fine example, for it is the sole responsiblities for the heads of city/county governments to work together to attract good paying industry to help support the local populous, and theres really no excuse and no one to blame except those that keep installing the same kind of polititians, and this report dont mention anything of that so it is an incomplete report because they are not telling everything including the main source.
El Paso relys on cheap labor while the rest of the country raises the bar and increases minumum wage salaries, here where I live the minumun wage is something like 9.36 an hour, thats what Mc Donalds starting pay has to pay you if you work for them (FYI, I dont work at Mc Donalds), but in El Paso it has depended on low wages and the jobs dont want to pay or dont have the money to pay or for reals El Paso does have some good paying jobs, and alot of Mexicans and Anglos have theses jobs, the thing is there are not enough of them to go around, so everyone is stuck competeing for lower wage jobs with the lower educated or un educated population.
Taxes are high in El Paso, but yet the cost of living is not going out throught the roof like it is here where I live, so it dont matter where you live because in one way or another it's going to cost you in the form of cost of living for the exception that you will find better options in the form of paying jobs,remember that this is not 1970 or 1990, that was 18 years ago and 18 years from now if people keep electing the same kind of representation to city or county government.
Guess what? El Paso is going to fall even further behind times and you will still have the high city taxes to content with because your money will have to pay for the services provided to you by the city you live in, so the smart people leave El Paso in droves, thats fine, maybe someday city leaders will get the message but I doubt all of them will get it.
Brain drain in El Paso, not everyone is leaving all at once but one thing I cant wait for is when Fort Bliss completes it's expansion and all the new reloca'tees are settled down and start looking for work, and when they encountered El Paso's tough job requirement, you must know how to speak Spanish, I hope they go after the people that started this stupid idiot nonesense rule.
Brain drain in El Paso, not everyone is leaving all at once but one thing I cant wait for is when Fort Bliss completes it's expansion and all the new reloca'tees are settled down and start looking for work, and when they encountered El Paso's tough job requirement, you must know how to speak Spanish, I hope they go after the people that started this stupid idiot nonesense rule.
I must admit I do worry about finding a job here, I have not looked to hard due to I will be having a baby this summer but when the baby comes and gets settles in and it is time for me to go back to work then what? all the day cares seem filled up around here and all the people that I have spoken with can not find a job around here, one lady told me she has been loking for almost a year now!!!
I have been thinking maybe it would be better if I just went back to school next year and get me degree before we move again, I only have about 21hrs. left so it would not be hard but there would be no extra money!! so I am worried about these things but there does not seem much that I can do about it at this time.
Guess what? El Paso is going to fall even further behind times and you will still have the high city taxes to content with because your money will have to pay for the services provided to you by the city you live in, so the smart people leave El Paso in droves, thats fine, maybe someday city leaders will get the message but I doubt all of them will get it.
Brain drain in El Paso, not everyone is leaving all at once but one thing I cant wait for is when Fort Bliss completes it's expansion and all the new reloca'tees are settled down and start looking for work, and when they encountered El Paso's tough job requirement, you must know how to speak Spanish, I hope they go after the people that started this stupid idiot nonesense rule.
I have worked a number of places here -- one other problem I see for "newcomers" especially in the lower-paying jobs is sometimes an attitude they face by insecure front line supervisors. For some reason, someone from the outside is often viewed as a threat and they can be made to feel very unwelcome.
I see people -- sometimes from the military families take a lower paying job and be chased out of a job because of overly domineering supervisors that want to manage with a very heavy hand -- and are accustomed to a more submissive type of employee -- they cannot handle the cultural differences of the "outsiders" who aren't as used to the management style. Of course that isn't everywhere but it can be a problem some people face.
The sad thing is -- these people could accept the low pay but not the treatment from higher ups -- that is their immediate supervisor.
You look at the weather this weekend and the last few weekends -- and almost all of us admit that the climate here is outstanding -- almost no place has better weather. We have almost no heating bills, and airconditioning -- depending on how your house is situation can be unneeded -- I myself don't use aircondioners -- not even a swamp cooler. That offsets the high property tax somewhat.
I know people who live in other places where the pay isn't that much better and they not only have high heating bills, they try to leave for a week or two during this time of the year to head south -- something we don't have to do.
I believe things could turn around here -- steps at a time. We should encourage this city as a retirement spot -- and encourage some of those RV's traveling east from the Tucson area or west from Florida to stop and spend some time here -- even a whole winter. Starting with retirees would be good because they bring money they've saved up elsewhere, they don't use the public schools, they generally have insurance and at least Medicare and many of them are passing through here anyhow -- we just should try to get them to pull off of I-10 and stay. Our weather is better than the places they are heading. These people are the ones who have time for shopping and dining out, golfing and so on. They add jobs without taking jobs and not only that -- they wouldn't require Spanish fluency which would be jobs for some of the English speakers like those from the military families.
I know from my workplace -- many people facing retirement are considering a relocation only for the reason their kids have left and don't appear to be coming back -- and they're considering moving closer to where their kids have settled -- but we could try to get replacements.
After the RV'ers start finding this city, then others would start coming because there would be more and more going up to keep them coming. Restaurants, shopping, theme areas.
It's a little more bottom up -- but it would reverse some of the trends of the last couple decades. The problem with trying to get high dollar jobs and highly paid professionals here and keep them here is that there isn't enough of the "middle America" to keep them staying. It seems a shame that Florida has so much of this and it does help their economy -- and we don't try to get in on it.
I must admit I do worry about finding a job here, I have not looked to hard due to I will be having a baby this summer but when the baby comes and gets settles in and it is time for me to go back to work then what? all the day cares seem filled up around here and all the people that I have spoken with can not find a job around here, one lady told me she has been loking for almost a year now!!!
I have been thinking maybe it would be better if I just went back to school next year and get me degree before we move again, I only have about 21hrs. left so it would not be hard but there would be no extra money!! so I am worried about these things but there does not seem much that I can do about it at this time.
That's the problem -- in some parts of the country women with children don't even desire a high paid full time job -- they want extra spending money and are perfectly happy working some kind of job, even part time. Same for kids in high school -- and that's one of the shortcomings of El Paso, although the kids generally can find something in fast food places but not all those jobs appeal to older people.
There really is a shortage of jobs for those who would work reception jobs, clerical jobs, store jobs, assisting in schools, and quite a few jobs.
I do not feel I can take a low paying job, I have to pay child care and gas so I do not see myself working in el paso because 9hr. will not pay day care, and gas.
I have also notice around here many wifes do not work and all I here is" you are lucky you do not have to work" where did anyone get the idea that just because my husband is in the army does not mean I do not have to work!!
I had never heard that before coming here in CO. most of the women that live on base work but here most women that live on base do not work, also in MS. most of the wifes work some just part-time but just about every wife I met had some kind of job again not here, maybe I just took that statement the wrong way but I had never been told that are have heard of that so it hit me kind of hard!
It seems wife so many people moving in to el paso and bliss there would be more jobs.
What I find disturbing is the lip service which is paid to the idea of keeping the educated young people here but when it comes down to it, there isn't any action being taken. I wish I could find this blog that I had read- the author was saying that everyone here says that they want to hire the well qualified UTEP students but when they go to get a job here, it seems like the employers specifically discriminate against them. Then the kids will move and get excellant jobs in other cities, so they are most definitely well qualified but they are going to remember how they were treated and never come back. I've had this same thing happen to myself and a number of my friends. And what is even more ridiculus is that the employer here will hire someone from out of town who then ends up quitting and moving back out of town in a year. It is an idiotic circle that keeps going 'round and 'round.
What I see is a very real lack of a solid middle class of educated people from age 21-40. The businesses here tend to have some older people who own and run the business and make all the money and then a jump down to the minimum wage workers. There isn't a middle management layer of college educated people gaining experience and then going on to start their own businesses and growing the economy. That group has left for the other cities in Texas which actually want and encourage businesses in their cities. Same thing goes for law firms- if you look at the people the gap is there too.
What seems to be the case is we have a ton of service type jobs- lots of call centers but I would classify the teaching positions and medical positions as services versus businesses which are producing products and putting a lot of money into the economy directly and indirectly. With teaching, the school districts are major employers and yet they have a lot of openings and turnover. I have heard various reasons but I know many of my friends have moved to other parts of Texas where their Spanish earns them a bunch of extra money for them.
The city is pinning a lot of hope on this medical school coming and that is somehow going to kick start the economy here but I don't see it. My father is a retired physician and I was premed way back when, so I know a bit more than the average person. First, many seem to think that the school will just accept students from El Paso, which is crazy. First there simply are not enough science students coming from here who are qualified. Second, it is a fairly well known but not talked about fact that many of the students from UTEP who are admitted to professional graduate programs are being admitted because of their minority status and not for their academic credentials. The school simply can not accept a full class of people like that or they will end up like Texas Southern- their law school is predominately black and is tettering on the edge of losing its accreditation because they emphasize skin color over other quals. Many people also don't seem to realize that Texas Tech's medical school is not very highly ranked and it does very little research so it doesn't bring in the big dollar research grants.
Now I just don't understand how a school which is known for not having a major research capability is suddenly going to turn that around and become a major research complex. There isn't any other infrastructure to support that here- there is a lot of specialized equipment and people who will need to be brought in. The exact kinds of people who we can not convince to stay here now- how is that going to change? And why would El Paso be a better place than the gigantic medical complex in Houston for research? Looking at the possibility of pharmaceutical companies moving here- why would they? Is the city going to actually give tax incentives? Will a company find it profitable to have to move nearly everyone from the researchers to the management to the legal (there are a whopping 2 patent lawyers here) to accounting, etc...
Then there is the notion that it will keep doctors here. That completely ignores the match process for medical residents that is a national program. The El Paso campus is not a major residency spot- it is not a highly ranked program which medical students want to come to, in fact one can go on the forums for medical students and read a bunch of complaints. In the years that the 3rd and 4th students have been here the number of doctors here hasn't jumped. In reality the residency programs here are actually filled with foreign medical grads (a bunch from India, which has been on 60 minutes)- when match time comes around, it is usually in the paper who is staying and it is normally only a few students and many years it is because several students did not pass the portion of their boards which allows them to start their residency.
On the military front, what happens if the democrats when the election? Will the soldiers actually move here? Obama has said that he will cut the Future Comabt Systems if he is elected. And if they all do come, what about the infrastructure, the roads and schools, the power grid, etc... Not to mention all these dependents trying to find jobs. My former law firm had 2 wives of soldiers there- both were very well qualified but they are also only there for the time that their husbands are here. One already has left and the other one is close to leaving. I knew both and they were very good lawyers and very nice people but they also took a couple of jobs that could have gone to people who would have had a higher chance of staying here. Did 2 El Paso natives have to move somewhere else, never to return because of that?
And I do think that we have not seen the full impact of the corruption scandal yet- did anyone read the paper for Sunday, about the EPCC trustees? I was reading a blog by an author for Texas Monthly who was here doing the research for a future article and he was saying that this is the largest scandal he has ever seen. The implications are profound if all the major contracting entities in town- the city, county, school district, and various other boards, etc... are found to be in the middle of payoffs.
Which companies are going to want to risk getting involved and how many young people will be even more discouraged from staying and/or returning?
Five years ago I was all gung ho to return but now I have had any enthusiasm snatched away from me- I just don't care anymore, I'm ready to go and never look back.
I came back to help with care of elderly mother, which I don't regret. What I do regret is staying one more day than needed. There are NO jobs here that pay worth a damn!!! None!!! It's pathetic!!! Stay away from this place!!! Please, do yourself a favor and stay away!!!
I did secure one job with the City of El Paso (I'm degreed) and they treat you like inmates at a prison. They don't believe in progressive management styles. They like acting like they are still at turn of century (The 1900s I mean...Please, the 2000's brought no change!!!)
The citizens of El Paso need to revolt against the backwardness of this community and DEMAND change from the city government.
100% of the citizens need to vote, vote, vote, and do away with self serving, lazy politicians who won't change with times, and bring good paying JOBS, to this city.
Employees need to start demanding better pay, through their politicians.
If you allow yourself to be a doormat, people will walk over you.
Eventually, it is the individual citizens' fault that change does not come.
I lasted two months. I just could not figure out how, you could punch in two minutes early with no problem, but if you punched in two minutes late, you were written up (yes, a formal charge put in your employment history)
How sophomoric the management of the City of El Paso is. This is the 21st Century, Mayor, not the 18th!!!
Get your head out of the sand, and DO something to bring about change
Leavingsoon and Franklyorange, you have hit on a lot of good points.
I currently work for a local company and, if I was working in another city (Dallas, Chicago, etc.) the same position would pay at least $10,000 more there than what I get here. And it's not like the company cannot afford higher salaries--the same 10-15 people at the top make massive salaries, while the workers get nothing except for a few silly things during the year like a "free" turkey for Thanksgiving. I've contemplated going back to UTEP for a BBA in finance, but, while I like UTEP, I'm thinking it would be better to get the degree at a different school not because the education will be better but because the opportunities once I graduate will be better.
I've lived in El Paso since 1980, and the city has just stagnated in that time. Unless you work for the school districts or Fort Bliss, then you can mostly expect private sector jobs at department stores, fast food joint, or strip clubs.
When I went in for my last work evaluation (and my boss gave me an evaluation of "Outstanding" in every category), I requested a salary that would put me at the average _starting_ salary for a worker of my qualifications and experience. I was told, in their own polite way, to go pound sand.
You're right, Leavingsoon, local companies pay lip service to keeping local talent here, and when it stays here, these same companies give UTEP students the shaft.
It's a shame. El Paso has nice people, nice weather, and so much potential. But a handful of people control this city (three or four property companies like Mimco and River Oaks own almost every piece of commercial property, for example), and it's working out well for them. Why should they care about what happens to the rest of the city?
And people here work hard. Too bad their bosses only toss them scraps.
One thing that becomes clear to people who come to El Paso is that there really is no way to live off a typical El Paso salary while trying to accomplish the following simultaneously: pay rent/mortgage, contribute to a 401(k) and/or IRA, provide for a family. Even two-salary families have a hard time here. Most people in this city save nothing for retirement and hope to live off Social Security at retirement. In fact, if you go around and ask people if they contribute to their 401(k) or if they have an IRA, they'll either laugh at you or ask what those things are.
No matter how professional you are or how high-demand your skills and education are, if you work in El Paso, then you need to lop $10-15,000 off what the national average is.
Friendly people and nice weather only go so far. Sooner or later, a person has to ask him/herself, "Can't I do better than _this_?!"
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I moved back and regret it to this day.
