El Paso losing, not gaining Skilled Workers (Houston, San Diego: apartments, rentals)

[Logan]

Nice story today in the El Paso Times about the loss of skilled workers. Seems El Paso is only gaining more population because of the aging of the population and because of more natural births.

[lipbalm]

I like EP but there is a culture of mediocrity that permeates through the majority of El Paso. Unfortunatley it's a vicious cycle that will be difficult to break.

[EnjoyEP]

First off, here is the link to the story for anyone interested in reading it:

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_5597004

The first two posters are correct though...it touches on quite a bit of what has been lamented in this EP Forum in the past by young professionals in El Paso...the "brain drain" of young EP-natives away from EP to other parts of the U.S.

As per usual though, I do take two positives from the story that is otherwise a more somber story:

1) Bob Cook, president of the El Paso Regional Economic Development Corp., is quoted in the story as noting that El Paso might be close to seeing a reversal of the "brain drain" and he gives some great reasons and facts to bolster his reasons of optimism.

2) There is a 41-year old professional - but who is still studying his undergrad at UTEP - quoted and discussed in the article who lived for ten years in San Francisco and stated he would be returning to San Fran upon his graduation because he can simply make quite a higher wage in San Fran than he can in El Paso.

Now this is assuredly likely true...but this is a perfect example of something that was discussed in a different thread in this forum. Sure...wages on the whole are extremely higher in San Fran than they are in El Paso - really, you cannot even compare the two the statistics are so far apart.

However, similarly far apart are the cost of living stats! San Fran is generally considered one of the costliest cities in the U.S. to live, and the statistics support this. Cost of housing is incredibly high in SF, and most people making less than $200K in SF live in smaller apartments or rentals with no property. So sure...you may make 50% more in SF than you are making in EP, but with the extreme costs of living/housing, etc., statistically you are not coming out "ahead" because you are pumping all of the additional salary right back into living needs and ammeneties. Plus...you are likely doing it in a far smaller living quarter.

I once worked with someone who moved to Albuquerque, and later transferred to El Paso - she moved to ABQ from San Fran. She noted that in Albuquerque, her nice home that she purchased for $200K (still a little expensive for many folks)...she noted the same house in San Fran - size, age, etc. - would have been priced at a little over 2-MILLION! Then...she sold this similar $200K house in Albuquerque and purchased a similar house in El Paso for $140K with a far bigger yard than she had in SF. So essentially, she traded a similar house in SF for $2-million dollars for one in El Paso for $140,000 with a bigger yard. That is simply mind-boggling to me.

Plus, she got to give up the rather overrated (my opinion only...I might even call it often lousy) San Fran weather for El Paso's sunny, dry climate.

Now many people who would love the San Fran culture/lifestyle/"urbanisim", etc., would shudder at the prospects of trading that in for a place like El Paso...and surely that is a matter of opinion and one really folks can't say is right or wrong. I suppose those who live in New York City and love it might shudder at living in...say...Omaha, NE or those in Chicago and love it might hate living in Birmingham, AL; so that is just a matter of taste.

However, my ultimate point is that when you crunch the numbers in terms of the higher salary elsewhere versus the cost of living...it often does not put people as far "ahead" as it would appear on the surface.

(Surely though...people still need to physically find and obtain a job in their respective field...and that is surely a different story if those jobs are not available in EP).

[holmes]

Honestly I think it comes down to a few things when people choose a place to live and work in.

Do you value the cool, trendy lifestyle which usually means more money on your paycheck, but you live in a cramped apartment until you can afford to buy a house (which would probably be a while unless you live out in the boonies of said city). I can see younger people who value the big money/trendy lifestyle and can deal with living in a shack prefer this.

Or do you value the ability to buy a nice house for cheap in a safe city, albeit somewhat rough around the edges. With some decent nightlife, but nowhere what it should be for a city it's size. I can see people with families or retirees who like getting more for their dollar prefer the slower/safer pace of life in El Paso, amongst other large cities.

There are other things to consider about El Paso.

Traffic: I've seen far worse, but then again I don't commute on the east side, so this might be a toss up.
Curb appeal: El Paso has some areas that aren't very easy on the eye (like downtown & it's surrounding neighborhoods). However, I see slow, but steady improvement.
Diversity: This city is unlike any other I've ever been to in this country. Some people will either love it or hate it.
Employment: Depending on your profession, you'll either have a very easy or very hard time finding employment.
Climate: This city has some of the best weather you'll find anywhere.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by holmes

Honestly I think it comes down to a few things when people choose a place to live and work in.

Do you value the cool, trendy lifestyle which usually means more money on your paycheck, but you live in a cramped apartment until you can afford to buy a house (which would probably be a while unless you live out in the boonies of said city). I can see younger people who value the big money/trendy lifestyle and can deal with living in a shack prefer this.

Or do you value the ability to buy a nice house for cheap in a safe city, albeit somewhat rough around the edges. With some decent nightlife, but nowhere what it should be for a city it's size. I can see people with families or retirees who like getting more for their dollar prefer the slower/safer pace of life in El Paso, amongst other large cities.

There are other things to consider about El Paso.

Traffic: I've seen far worse, but then again I don't commute on the east side, so this might be a toss up.
Curb appeal: El Paso has some areas that aren't very easy on the eye (like downtown & it's surrounding neighborhoods). However, I see slow, but steady improvement.
Diversity: This city is unlike any other I've ever been to in this country. Some people will either love it or hate it.
Employment: Depending on your profession, you'll either have a very easy or very hard time finding employment.
Climate: This city has some of the best weather you'll find anywhere.

As usual, holmes, I think your insights and perspectives are dead-on.

I think your first two paragraphs sum up living in EP (or similar towns) versus other cities like San Fran, Chicago, etc. extremely well.

I would like to say though - for curb appeal - while you are right that EP does have some eyesores in dowtown, Central EP etc. (what big city doesn't, right?) I would say that EP has many neighborhoods / homes, etc., with just TREMEDOUS curb appeal too! The huge palm trees and quantity of palms, the diverse array of neat cacti (including the occasional saguaros), the unique archiecture of the homes...you'll see many neat Mediterranean style homes, adobe style homes (similar to those common to New Mexico), etc. - many which have a cool desert/tropical (even though EP is anything but tropical) look due to the great trees / plants that are growable in EP due to the warm climate.

I love the curb appeal of some of the nice houses in EP...and the great thing is...compared to many other areas, they are actually affordable!

[holmes]

Thanks EnjoyEP! As for the whole curb appeal thing, there are some things absolutely beautiful about this city. Many a time I look out at the sunset or mountains and am awestruck at the sheer beauty of our desert landscape. I just think at times I can get a little impatient about the downtown area in El Paso. I want all these neighborhoods to be polished up to what they once were. Unfortunately that's going to take some time. Now I don't want people to think that all neighborhoods around these areas lack curb appeal. Kern Place and Manhattan Heights are two historic neighborhoods in the vicinity that are absolutely beautiful, but they also cost roughly twice as much for the same kind of house you'd find in the rougher neighborhoods. Such is the dilemma for those wishing to live in a transitional neighborhood like Sunset Heights..

[lipbalm]

The housing may be affordable compared to other parts of the country, but the pay is way below average as well (there are exceptions but few and far between ). I moved away to find better opportunities for me and my family that El Paso simply could not provide, not because I was looking for the "trendy" lifestyle. In fact I would have rather stayed but realized that to reach the next lcareer level I had to move away, unfortunatley. I think the EP times article summed up my experience and that of many of my friends as well.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by holmes

Thanks EnjoyEP! As for the whole curb appeal thing, there are some things absolutely beautiful about this city. Many a time I look out at the sunset or mountains and am awestruck at the sheer beauty of our desert landscape. I just think at times I can get a little impatient about the downtown area in El Paso. I want all these neighborhoods to be polished up to what they once were. Unfortunately that's going to take some time. Now I don't want people to think that all neighborhoods around these areas lack curb appeal. Kern Place and Manhattan Heights are two historic neighborhoods in the vicinity that are absolutely beautiful, but they also cost roughly twice as much for the same kind of house you'd find in the rougher neighborhoods. Such is the dilemma for those wishing to live in a transitional neighborhood like Sunset Heights..

Indeed...I think - the same is true up here in Albuquerque too - the desert landscape is very polarizing...people either love it or hate it (the most common reason being it is not "green" enough).

But I love the mountains, the desert vistas, the mesas, the varied altitudes (which allow you to see thousands and millions of lights at night and see for miles around), the sunshine and the plants.

I hear you on the Downtown though...Albuquerque went through a similar Downtown revitalization about 10 years ago, and the results, while still ongoing, are largely very positive.

[holmes]

Originally Posted by lipbalm

The housing may be affordable compared to other parts of the country, but the pay is way below average as well (there are exceptions but few and far between ). I moved away to find better opportunities for me and my family that El Paso simply could not provide, not because I was looking for the "trendy" lifestyle. In fact I would have rather stayed but realized that to reach the next lcareer level I had to move away, unfortunatley. I think the EP times article summed up my experience and that of many of my friends as well.

Sorry for my generalizations, but I speak of my familiarity with certain cities like Chicago, New York, Boston, San Francisco, San Diego, etc.

I've only been to houston once about 10-15 years ago. If the housing market is as you say perhaps it may be better for some people to live in a bigger Texas city with the better pay, etc. I don't doubt there are more opportunities for your profession out there. But honestly I don't know how people can stand all the crime (from what I've heard). Also, Houston has a nasty habit of razing all their historic neighborhoods so I don't really find it very interesting, architecture-wise. Of course, if you're living/working in the outer suburbs than my previous two points are probably moot. I'm happy you've found better tidings outside of El Paso, but lament another high skilled worker has again left the city as the article suggests. Hopefully in the not too distant future the trend will reverse..

[holmes]

Interesting follow-up story regarding the "mija factor". Got a kick out of it, but there's probably some truth to it:

http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_5620102