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How did this thread end up being turned into a debate about abortion?
I was part of that I suppose by focusing on choice and then using pro-choice in my example. Of course the mere mention of abortion can spark debate though a debate on abortion was not my intention. I wanted to focus on liberty and that part of the libertarian ideology which I thought was relevant to what Ron Paul said.
The important point here is that Ron Paul believes in individual liberties and the rights of individuals to do what they want with their own property.
Freedom can be ugly. But I'd rather live with the ugly parts and be free than give up my own freedoms. On this subject, I defer to Evelyn Beatrice Hall's quote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Pauls position is that it SHOULD be legal to allow whoever you wanted into a property you own, a business you own, and that the federal government has no right to impeed upon your rights by demanding you service people you dont wish to service.
and its a slippery slope.
Imagine a city where all the stores refused to sell to black people, and those people couldn't purchase food without travelling long distances. Entirely possible. Perhaps not with blacks nowadays, but what about people of middle eastern descent?
Should you be able to refuse service to certain individuals? Yes. Should you be able to refuse service to a whole group of people (who are able to pay for your goods/services) based on descent? No.
Imagine a city where all the stores refused to sell to black people, and those people couldn't purchase food without travelling long distances. Entirely possible. Perhaps not with blacks nowadays, but what about people of middle eastern descent?
Should you be able to refuse service to certain individuals? Yes. Should you be able to refuse service to a whole group of people (who are able to pay for your goods/services) based on descent? No.
I think that scenario is extraordinarily implausible without some sort of law preventing the stores from acting in their own best interest (i.e. selling their goods).
Okay I actually watched the video and that pinko Matthews wouldn't let Paul get a word in edge-wise.
Ron Paul actually would also oppose Jim Crow laws, he raised a good point that things like segregation in the military were all instituted BY LAW, not by individual volition. His basic belief is that you should be allowed to do what you want with your own private property.
Quote:
Originally Posted by flash3780
The important point here is that Ron Paul believes in individual liberties and the rights of individuals to do what they want with their own property.
Freedom can be ugly. But I'd rather live with the ugly parts and be free than give up my own freedoms. On this subject, I defer to Evelyn Beatrice Hall's quote "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
The argument is about Government should not be allowed to interfere with private business... This of course was politicized because Ron Paul is the only rational candidate in the Republican Party to challenge Obama...
MSNBC is turning into the Liberal version of FOX News...
An example of what really boggles my mind is that a Miss Black America is allowed while also including blacks in the Miss America contest. Black this, Black that - blacks seem to want it both ways, the right to be included in everything and the right to exclude everyone else. In their vast stupidity and incompetence the government seems to agree.
People and private businesses should have the right to exclude anyone they wish without answering to the government. In life everyone is discriminated against in one form or another and that's just life - it's a normal part of being human. Political correctness has turned normal human preferences into racially charged issues.
Public companies/government entities are a different matter although, again, the government has overcompensated by enacting needless and destructive affirmative action which is itself discriminatory.
Civil rights leglislation was purely a way for the left to grab the minority vote. In that, it worked, but ultimately did more harm than good.
This is the typical nonsense that the media people ask when your for liberty from government. Why do they always ask these kind of stupid questions. Why not ask the question can they put up no whites and its run by a black owner. This is just stupid thinking and or questioning.
It doesnt mean that business will survive and will keep customers if they promote this kind of thinking and that is Ron Paul's point. I think he should just stop answering these type of stupid questions.
Losing someone who is going to pay for your services because of their color is just bad business. Of course some idiots think business can't survive without government and have no trust in free markets and choices. I think what Ron Paul is saying is it will fail anyway and business can make that poor decision we don't need government telling them what to do. A few racist business owners might do that but it will be bad for business in the end which is Ron Paul's point. Free to make a choice on your personal property comes with the responsible and rewards and failures of those kind of choices. No bailout money for them either and no laws that benefit anyone when it comes to business.
The civil rights act of 1964 is for public services and usage not private businesses. That law was pasted because it was the local and state GOVERNMENT LAWs who didn't let blacks ride the BUS and drink the water. You can thank government for that not private businesses and few racists. Government had to correct it's own racist laws and Ron Paul doesn't suggest a law on private business owners for the same reason.
The government never should have had laws against citizens in this matter.
I think all private organizations even the united negro fund is reserved for blacks not white people. My point is private industry can regulate its personal business decisions just as most of them always have.
In a free market you can get everything you need from many other stores and services you don't need the services of racists.
PS you have the right to protest and get the store on public record, and inform people of the kind of place they run. Use your first amendment rights to tell people of the kind of practices and beliefs they hold. I believe in todays world they they will lose customers.
Imagine a city where all the stores refused to sell to black people, and those people couldn't purchase food without travelling long distances. Entirely possible. Perhaps not with blacks nowadays, but what about people of middle eastern descent?
Should you be able to refuse service to certain individuals? Yes. Should you be able to refuse service to a whole group of people (who are able to pay for your goods/services) based on descent? No.
The problem is if anyone is depending on a few stores for their goods and services you would not have a free market. Anyone who wants to make a profit and make a living is not going to turn down MONEY. Black peoples cash is just as good as white people cash and the other way around. Everyone can start a business in this country as it should be. With your hard work and business sense it can succeed or fail. Those who accept more money from anyone who wants to buy something will last longer and grow faster then the idiot who turns way people. There is a food business owner in philadelphia who turns down anyone who does not speak english. Do you know how many other places you can get FOOD, go next door he will take your cash no matter what language you speak.
Government stays out of it, freedom always gives you more options and businesses fail and succed. It is not the governments job to tell people what to do with their personal property and only the people decide where they will spend their money.
People would then have the right to boycott / refuse to favor that business with their cash, which is how the free market works. The problem was before the civil rights era, people were condoning it and accepting it as the norm in certain areas of the Country. That has dramatically changed since then. And even if some would accept that, in let's say certain states, then those who find it unacceptable could move to another state. See, that is true liberty and freedom. So I can understand Ron Paul's position based on that.
People would then have the right to boycott / refuse to favor that business with their cash, which is how the free market works. The problem was before the civil rights era, people were condoning it and accepting it as the norm in certain areas of the Country. That has dramatically changed since then. And even if some would accept that, in let's say certain states, then those who find it unacceptable could move to another state. See, that is true liberty and freedom. So I can understand Ron Paul's position based on that.
Jim Crow laws forced businesses to discriminate. Separate seating at restaurants, sitting at the back of public transportation buses, segregation by school zoning laws, etc were all enforced by the government (federal, state, and local). Of course segregation existed in places without Jim Crow laws, but I'd wager that without government regulation, businesses who refused service to people based on skin color would be few and far between. Businesses are, after all, in business to sell things and make a profit, right?
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