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so we bail out a failing company on the backs of our other workers so that they can turn around and give our jobs to other "poorer countries".
way to go.
The alternative was to destroy the American automobile industry costing hundreds of thousands of jobs during the worst economic conditions for 100 years.
GM has been adding jobs. I really don't get what you're whining about.
Everybody I knew back then, and I, hated McCain until he picked Sarah. She energized the party like never before.
Unfortunately, ACORN pulled a fast one that nobody expected: they bused thousands of people from the projects to the polls. Those poor people had and still have no clue they were exploited for political gain.
As far as McCain standing up to voices of extremism.....what extremism? Loyal Americans aren't extreme, but I suppose to lefttards they seem that way.
I almost feel sorry for Obama to be grasping at straws like he is. Poor, pitiful fool.
The alternative was to destroy the American automobile industry costing hundreds of thousands of jobs during the worst economic conditions for 100 years.
GM has been adding jobs. I really don't get what you're whining about.
The intelligent thing to do would have been to let GM file bankruptcy...close....then re-organize as a NON-UNION COMPANY...thereby getting out from under the UAW stronghold....giving their workers the option of coming back under a new contract that is reasonable.
GM would have been far better off than they are now and will be in the future. And as for the bailout...GM never repaid that entire amount as the obama administration claims...they paid back a specific part of that money....not the 50 BILLION..they actually paid back about 3 billion with other TARP funds. So....as the democrats claim a great success ....as you have here...it is truly anything BUT.
I KNOW people who work for GM as union employees...I worked as a union employee in the UAW for Ford...believe me, the unions have outlived their usefulness. They are nothing more than organizations who influence our politcs with MASSIVE amounts of money that they are willing to spend...as we see in the Wisconsin recall of Scott Walker.
NONE of that should be going on....the unions are far too powerful. They protect workers from being fired who are lazy and worthless...they (the UAW / GM) have it in their contracts that the company MUST pay laid off workers 80% of their wages for the entire time they are laid off....there are all sorts of ridiculous demands that have to be met by GM and other companies. As democrats champion the unions and cheer them on, they don't seem to realize that it is ALL of us who pay for the high wages...the healthcare and retirement costs that GM...STATE....and ANY UNION EMPLOYED GOODS PROVIDERS negotiate.
the dems like to talk about the poor getting poorer....yet they support unions who make EVERYTHING more expensive...eventually, this must all come to an end if we are to survive as a nation.
You dropped your PhD in finance there Warren Buffet. Please feel free to outline your qualifications that you say things like absolutely bankruptcy would be the best option. Your post assumes that people would have continued to buy cars from an auto company in bankruptcy.
It's sort of odd that someone who thought that Obama passed TARP should suddenly think of himself as an expert in economic and political matters.
In terms of your grumbling about unions, grow a set and show some data that backs up your assertions. Do unions have more power than corporate interests? Seriously. The data, not surprisingly, disagrees with the assertion you're putting forward about union power. Not surprising since you have shown yourself to make false statements on other matters.
The other parts of your argument are oversimplified and unproven. The impact that unions have is felt throughout the non-union workforce. The reasons why auto companies like Toyota pay union wages and benefits is because the unions exist. It's very much to the benefit of the average American worker.
I have little remorse for organizations that complain about unions. There's an old saying in union management relations. When you get a union, you deserve it and you deserve the one you get.
In terms of the higher wages and benefits, if they're so out of proportion, then companies can feel free to negotiate them downwards.
Again, you're given false data on other topics. What, asides from your glorious job as an hourly factory worker, qualifies you to say that bankruptcy would have been any better.
You dropped your PhD in finance there Warren Buffet. Please feel free to outline your qualifications that you say things like absolutely bankruptcy would be the best option. Your post assumes that people would have continued to buy cars from an auto company in bankruptcy.
It's sort of odd that someone who thought that Obama passed TARP should suddenly think of himself as an expert in economic and political matters.
In terms of your grumbling about unions, grow a set and show some data that backs up your assertions. Do unions have more power than corporate interests? Seriously. The data, not surprisingly, disagrees with the assertion you're putting forward about union power. Not surprising since you have shown yourself to make false statements on other matters.
The other parts of your argument are oversimplified and unproven. The impact that unions have is felt throughout the non-union workforce. The reasons why auto companies like Toyota pay union wages and benefits is because the unions exist. It's very much to the benefit of the average American worker.
I have little remorse for organizations that complain about unions. There's an old saying in union management relations. When you get a union, you deserve it and you deserve the one you get.
In terms of the higher wages and benefits, if they're so out of proportion, then companies can feel free to negotiate them downwards.
Again, you're given false data on other topics. What, asides from your glorious job as an hourly factory worker, qualifies you to say that bankruptcy would have been any better.
You may argue all you like, but the facts of the matter are that unions have oultlived their usefulness.
Do unions have more power than corporate interests? Well....they have enough power to get a RECALL against Scott Walker...and they spent untold MILLIONS to do it. And you have the gall to sit here and say that thyey don't influence politics? Funny....I don't recall any corporation ever having the power to get a recall against an elected governor.
As for giving false data? Sorry...unions DO protect workers who do NOT deserve a job. If a union person pays his dues, he is protected no matter what. He can miss work...goof off...not put out a fair days work...start fights...and overall be a sub par worker...ALL of which lead to added costs of products that are passed on to the consumer. And this is just from what I OBSERVED in the years I worked in a union shop.
As for companies negotiating against unions like the UAW? HA!!! Why? So they can go on strike and cripple them? The union PAYS it's memebers to strike....and thus they can hold up companies until they get what they want. Fully paid healtcare...retirement benefits IN ADDITION to 401K matching funds.....sick time...and also when there are layoffs in the auto industry, the compnay has to pay 80% of the workers salary UNTIL HE IS CALLED BACK. Now...that is the way it is unless there has been a new negotiation since I was privvy to inside info.
IN this case...ALL of this adds to the cost of a new car....Which are mostly unaffordable to the average person. Do you wonder why they have LEASE options?? So that middle class people can still get a new car because they are UNAFFORDABLE TO MOST PEOPLE!! And why are they so much money?? Hmmmm.....doesn't take a genius to figure that out...or do YOU still need it explained? DUH
As for me saying bankruptcy would have been a better option? I argue that simply because GM could have gotten protection from the bankruptcy court so they would not have had to pay what they owed to the UNION for retirement packages. Not only that, but GM has NOT paid back the government bailout as the obama admin suggests. It paid a specific part of that bailout and used TARP funds to do so. As it stands, the UAW owns a 17% share of GM stock given to them in the government deal in payment for the retirement package that they owed the union. That isn't good business.
Now...as far as me saying that obama passed TARP? Wrong....Obama passed the stimulus package, and that is what I referred to when in that conversation. is that all you've got?
The alternative was to destroy the American automobile industry costing hundreds of thousands of jobs during the worst economic conditions for 100 years.
GM has been adding jobs. I really don't get what you're whining about.
There were thousands of GM employs who lost their jobs anway. There were hundreds of dealerships closed, GM plants closed, many folks laid off never to return. Where have you been? The 'bailout' did not save everyone's jobs at all. The auto industry ended up going through an organized bankruptcy just like Mitt Romney said they needed to in the beginning.
The alternative was to destroy the American automobile industry costing hundreds of thousands of jobs during the worst economic conditions for 100 years.
GM has been adding jobs. I really don't get what you're whining about.
is that called "whining" when i point out that most of those jobs are going to be lost anyway-- see my prior post-- and that lie was accomplished on the backs of the other workers in this country, and the children of those workers.
if you know that those jobs are going to be filled by cheaper workers in other countries anyhow, why didn't they use the stolen taxpayer money to train people for jobs that are going to actually stay here?
just a thought.
Last edited by floridasandy; 06-04-2012 at 06:14 PM..
You may argue all you like, but the facts of the matter are that unions have oultlived their usefulness.
Do unions have more power than corporate interests? Well....they have enough power to get a RECALL against Scott Walker...and they spent untold MILLIONS to do it. And you have the gall to sit here and say that thyey don't influence politics? Funny....I don't recall any corporation ever having the power to get a recall against an elected governor.
As for giving false data? Sorry...unions DO protect workers who do NOT deserve a job. If a union person pays his dues, he is protected no matter what. He can miss work...goof off...not put out a fair days work...start fights...and overall be a sub par worker...ALL of which lead to added costs of products that are passed on to the consumer. And this is just from what I OBSERVED in the years I worked in a union shop.
As for companies negotiating against unions like the UAW? HA!!! Why? So they can go on strike and cripple them? The union PAYS it's memebers to strike....and thus they can hold up companies until they get what they want. Fully paid healtcare...retirement benefits IN ADDITION to 401K matching funds.....sick time...and also when there are layoffs in the auto industry, the compnay has to pay 80% of the workers salary UNTIL HE IS CALLED BACK. Now...that is the way it is unless there has been a new negotiation since I was privvy to inside info.
IN this case...ALL of this adds to the cost of a new car....Which are mostly unaffordable to the average person. Do you wonder why they have LEASE options?? So that middle class people can still get a new car because they are UNAFFORDABLE TO MOST PEOPLE!! And why are they so much money?? Hmmmm.....doesn't take a genius to figure that out...or do YOU still need it explained? DUH
As for me saying bankruptcy would have been a better option? I argue that simply because GM could have gotten protection from the bankruptcy court so they would not have had to pay what they owed to the UNION for retirement packages. Not only that, but GM has NOT paid back the government bailout as the obama admin suggests. It paid a specific part of that bailout and used TARP funds to do so. As it stands, the UAW owns a 17% share of GM stock given to them in the government deal in payment for the retirement package that they owed the union. That isn't good business.
Now...as far as me saying that obama passed TARP? Wrong....Obama passed the stimulus package, and that is what I referred to when in that conversation. is that all you've got?
i think you are being a little disingenuous about TARP.
on a side note, the huffington post comments are very interesting in retrospect, and some of them are pretty insightful.
i hope that people read who voted for and who voted against-because some people are looking out for you, and some are not.
keep in mind that a few people flip-flopped on the issue after their elections were secure.
Last edited by floridasandy; 06-04-2012 at 06:15 PM..
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