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Does Trump have insiders doing the same thing in each state as the other candidates on his own behalf?
Can they choose to vote with the will of the people if the people happen to overwhelmingly support Trump?
Where have "the people" happened to "overwhelmingly support Trump"? I think that I've seen Trump take more than 50% of the votes in just one state, so he's hardly racking up "overwhelming support" even among Republicans.
That's how it works but doesn't make it fair/what will serve the people/who the majority really want. Just look at the results we've been getting over decades now to see how this system has been working for the people. GIGO.
Which to me is why the 2 party system is like John Adam's once stated and is not good for the people. I feel it would be much better to just have Independents running against each other and let the true majority of the PEOPLE decide from square one, not the machine/parties.
The political parties do not have an obligation to be fair, to do what serves the people, or select who the majority want. They try to meet those needs within their own framework because they need your votes come the general election, but if they choose to disregard it all though, there is nothing wrong with it. You don't like it? Work to put someone else on the ballot as either a 3rd party candidate or Independent. If Trump wanted to dictate how a nomination process would work then he should have started his own party or ran Independent.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
The political parties do not have an obligation to be fair, to do what serves the people, or select who the majority want.
This is obvious and what I feel is wrong with our political system right out of the gate, especially given our broken self-serving political system these days. And doesn't that bother you? You state it in such a way that's in an "oh well" type of manner but perhaps I'm wrong here. It simply exists/continues to exist because people overwhelming vote D or R. If people don't stop the 'I can only vote D or R or my vote is wasted thinking", nothing will change.
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Originally Posted by Oldhag1
You don't like it? Work to put someone else on the ballot as either a 3rd party candidate or Independent. If Trump wanted to dictate how a nomination process would work then he should have started his own party or ran Independent.
I will do my part by not voting for R or D if the will/majority of the people in primary voting isn't honored. If the majority did the same, we would change this nonsense and no other actions would be necessary.
Based on what I've read, if trump gets a majority of delegates and doesn't win the nomination, I think he'd run independent. Perhaps sander's will to if he was in the same spot. And I don't' blame them. This is not a I like/don't like trump issue. It's starting to show the people that the primary voting process basically means nothing and shouldn't be allowed given it means nothing if the political machine is in control. Stop the games/nonsense/false fronts I say.
This is obvious and what I feel is wrong with our political system right out of the gate,
I will do my part by not voting for R or D. If the majority did the same, we would change this nonsense and no other actions would be necessary.
It's starting to show the people that the primary voting process basically means nothing and shouldn't be allowed given it means nothing if the political machine is in control. Stop the games/nonsense/false fronts I say.
So, you might want to rethink that 'do your part' bit.... If you want real change, you gotta work for it. Just voting isn't enough. Join the party machine and work from the inside. Most people appear to either be too lazy or don't really care enough to get involved in the blood and guts of the thing.
I feel like a broken record, but here we go. The GOP is a private organization, they have the right to determine how to decide their nominee any way they want. If they wanted to make it based on something as ridiculous as who can eat the most cupcakes in 10 minutes, they can do that. It is part of their "freedom of association" right granted by the 1st amendment. The primaries and caucuses are not really elections but part of the selection process the two major political parties engage in. If you don't like how they do it you can exercise your freedom of association rights and not participate.
That's technically correct. However, by including primary elections and caucuses based on public participation in their candidate selection processes, both parties have clearly established that the voters are the primary drivers of this process in most states. For them to cast that participation out the window and just go with the will of the inner-circle backroom crowd would be to disenfranchise all these voters, all these active party supporters, even after these people had been recruited and cajoled by the candidates and the party into participating in this process.
Needless to say, that will be regarded as disrespectful, corrupt and dishonest, to say the least.
What is interesting is a state like North Dakota, where no such contract with the people was offered or made. That is a good example of the process working the way you suggest, without any basis for expecting the will of the people to be respected. And as a result, the people in that state will not be disappointed when the leaders of the party do whatever the heck seems best to them.
But in the states where the people go out to vote, the party leaders ignore the outcomes of those elections at their own peril.
So, you might want to rethink that 'do your part' bit.... If you want real change, you gotta work for it. Just voting isn't enough. Join the party machine and work from the inside. Most people appear to either be too lazy or don't really care enough to get involved in the blood and guts of the thing.
HA!
Sure, join the devil and make change that way. That will do it! With all due respect, that sounds very naive. My checkbook isn't that big, sorry. You appear to live in a textbook/world of theory/fantasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartacus713
That's technically correct. However, by including primary elections and caucuses based on public participation in their candidate selection processes, both parties have clearly established that the voters are the primary drivers of this process in most states. For them to cast that participation out the window and just go with the will of the inner-circle backroom crowd would be to disenfranchise all these voters, all these active party supporters, even after these people had been recruited and cajoled by the candidates and the party into participating in this process.
Needless to say, that will be regarded as disrespectful, corrupt and dishonest, to say the least.
What is interesting is a state like North Dakota, where no such contract with the people was offered or made. That is a good example of the process working the way you suggest, without any basis for expecting the will of the people to be respected. And as a result, the people in that state will not be disappointed when the leaders of the party do whatever the heck seems best to them.
But in the states where the people go out to vote, the party leaders ignore the outcomes of those elections at their own peril.
This is obvious and what I feel is wrong with our political system right out of the gate, especially given our broken self-serving political system these days. And doesn't that bother you? You state it in such a way that's in an "oh well" type of manner but perhaps I'm wrong here. It simply exists/continues to exist because people overwhelming vote D or R. If people don't stop the 'I can only vote D or R or my vote is wasted thinking", nothing will change.
I will do my part by not voting for R or D if the will/majority of the people in primary voting isn't honored. If the majority did the same, we would change this nonsense and no other actions would be necessary.
Based on what I've read, if trump gets a majority of delegates and doesn't win the nomination, I think he'd run independent. Perhaps sander's will to if he was in the same spot. And I don't' blame them. This is not a I like/don't like trump issue. It's starting to show the people that the primary voting process basically means nothing and shouldn't be allowed given it means nothing if the political machine is in control. Stop the games/nonsense/false fronts I say.
Yes, I am okay with it. I realize there are lots of angry people out there but I have lived in other countries, we have nothing to be angry about. Is it perfect? No, but it's a lot closer to perfect than just about anywhere else.
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When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
This is obvious and what I feel is wrong with our political system right out of the gate, especially given our broken self-serving political system these days. And doesn't that bother you?
Stop beataching and help to build a party more to your liking instead of beatching about how one group or another decides how to organize their political association. Or, stop showing up every four years and run for party office and change the game.
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I will do my part by not voting for R or D if the will/majority of the people in primary voting isn't honored. If the majority did the same, we would change this nonsense and no other actions would be necessary.
Now there's one solution, I'll pout stay home and guess who in either Party is going to care, no one. But that will show them.
Stop beataching and help to build a party more to your liking instead of beatching about how one group or another decides how to organize their political association. Or, stop showing up every four years and run for party office and change the game.
I didn't know you were an official censor of CD which is about expressing our views/opinions on matters and attempt to equate the views of others you apparently don't agree with as "beataching". Sounds most arrogant wino. May I suggest you get off your power/control trip and allow the free flow of ideas/opinions that CD is about.
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Originally Posted by TheWiseWino
Now there's one solution, I'll pout stay home and guess who in either Party is going to care, no one. But that will show them.
I didn't know making a choice at the voting booth/card was "pouting". If one's vote doesn't matter, using your logic, I trust you stay at home as your vote doesn't matter/the party doesn't care about your vote either. You sound like an individual who likes the way the current system works. More power to you. And I won't call your view "pouting".
Sure, join the devil and make change that way. That will do it! With all due respect, that sounds very naive. My checkbook isn't that big, sorry. You appear to live in a textbook/world of theory/fantasy.
You don't need a bunch of money to get involved in your political party. If you think the political parties are equivalent to the devil, you really might be better off not voting - that is certainly a lot more naive and fantasy thinking than doing the hard work of effecting change in your world. Of course, if people don't vote or get out and work to change things, they really have no basis for complaining about how things are going.
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If one's vote doesn't matter, using your logic, I trust you stay at home as your vote doesn't matter/the party doesn't care about your vote either. You sound like an individual who likes the way the current system works. More power to you. And I won't call your view "pouting".
