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Old 04-07-2016, 05:53 PM
 
22,473 posts, read 12,007,727 times
Reputation: 20398

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTQ3000 View Post
Yikes, Mr. Trump's supporters are not doing well.

Mick
So, all Walmart shoppers are Trump supporters? Or are all Trump supporters Walmart shoppers? Which is it, Mick? Is it beneath you to shop at Walmart?
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Old 04-07-2016, 06:40 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,909,938 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
This is actually a logical fallacy. Use a better strategy if you want to debate instead of useless personal attacks.
Many people throw personal attacks when cornered and, CAN'T argue their way out.
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Old 04-07-2016, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Vladivostok Russia
1,229 posts, read 859,657 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Funny such an economic whizbang didn't foresee his own companies' bankruptcies.
The bankruptcies were strategic filings------much the same way Henery Ford and Paul Allen of Microsoft have used the system in the same strategic manner.

You may not agree with it and it may not be ethical in the minds of most, but it is what it is.

Before you ditch or change the bankruptcy laws, I'd abolish a protective vehicle like an LLC first.
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Vladivostok Russia
1,229 posts, read 859,657 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And the auto industry, makers of what for most people are the second biggest investment they ever make next to their homes, posted record sales last year of 17,500,000 vehicles.
Record Auto sales is a huge fallacy. Wall Street has securitized auto lending and vastly reduced the lending standards much in the same way pre 2008 mortgage industry.

Many folks are paying 30 percent, with notes that are 8 to 10 years long. It's just a short matter of time before the automotive sales industry experiences a huge crash...

It Starts: Subprime Auto Loans Implode (in Your Bond Fund) | Wolf Street
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,795 posts, read 13,269,029 times
Reputation: 19952
Quote:
Originally Posted by At-Chilles View Post
Record Auto sales is a huge fallacy. Wall Street has securitized auto lending and vastly reduced the lending standards much in the same way pre 2008 mortgage industry.

Many folks are paying 30 percent, with notes that are 8 to 10 years long. It's just a short matter of time before the automotive sales industry experiences a huge crash...

It Starts: Subprime Auto Loans Implode (in Your Bond Fund) | Wolf Street
Or maybe not.

"...One of the more annoying and misguided claims making the rounds is that subprime auto loans are the new subprime mortgages.There are many reasons why this is wrong... In some states, it can take three years for a foreclosure to be completed. If you default on a car loan, the repo man and his tow truck might show up in three hours....With delinquent subprime auto-loans, the repossession process is so much faster it doesn't have the same drag on the local economy. The cars are too easy to find, repossess and resell, mitigating the losses on loans gone bad. A surge in repossessed cars may end up increasing the number of used cars for sale, but other than that, don't expect to see the huge write-offs by mortgage lenders that caused so much harm to the financial system and broader economy..."

"However, with a few notable exceptions, Morgan Stanley sees little chance of subprime auto asset-backed securities (ABS) becoming the new subprime mortgage bonds per se. Investors have been well compensated for buying such deals in terms of the extra cushion of protection embedded in such securitizations..."

Morgan Stanley: People Might Be Worried About Subprime Auto Bonds Because of the 'Big Short' Movie - Bloomberg

No, Subprime Auto Loans Are Not Like Subprime Mortgages - Bloomberg View
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:55 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Or maybe not.

"...One of the more annoying and misguided claims making the rounds is that subprime auto loans are the new subprime mortgages.There are many reasons why this is wrong... In some states, it can take three years for a foreclosure to be completed. If you default on a car loan, the repo man and his tow truck might show up in three hours....With delinquent subprime auto-loans, the repossession process is so much faster it doesn't have the same drag on the local economy. The cars are too easy to find, repossess and resell, mitigating the losses on loans gone bad. A surge in repossessed cars may end up increasing the number of used cars for sale, but other than that, don't expect to see the huge write-offs by mortgage lenders that caused so much harm to the financial system and broader economy..."

"However, with a few notable exceptions, Morgan Stanley sees little chance of subprime auto asset-backed securities (ABS) becoming the new subprime mortgage bonds per se. Investors have been well compensated for buying such deals in terms of the extra cushion of protection embedded in such securitizations..."

Morgan Stanley: People Might Be Worried About Subprime Auto Bonds Because of the 'Big Short' Movie - Bloomberg

No, Subprime Auto Loans Are Not Like Subprime Mortgages - Bloomberg View
This isn't taking into account the longer terms today on auto loans. If someone takes out a 72 or 84 month loan and it gets repossessed at 30 months it's worth nowhere near the amount still due.

Of course you aren't going to have as large of write offs that you would have on a house but stupid is as stupid did.
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Vladivostok Russia
1,229 posts, read 859,657 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Or maybe not.

"...One of the more annoying and misguided claims making the rounds is that subprime auto loans are the new subprime mortgages.There are many reasons why this is wrong... In some states, it can take three years for a foreclosure to be completed. If you default on a car loan, the repo man and his tow truck might show up in three hours....With delinquent subprime auto-loans, the repossession process is so much faster it doesn't have the same drag on the local economy. The cars are too easy to find, repossess and resell, mitigating the losses on loans gone bad. A surge in repossessed cars may end up increasing the number of used cars for sale, but other than that, don't expect to see the huge write-offs by mortgage lenders that caused so much harm to the financial system and broader economy..."

"However, with a few notable exceptions, Morgan Stanley sees little chance of subprime auto asset-backed securities (ABS) becoming the new subprime mortgage bonds per se. Investors have been well compensated for buying such deals in terms of the extra cushion of protection embedded in such securitizations..."

Morgan Stanley: People Might Be Worried About Subprime Auto Bonds Because of the 'Big Short' Movie - Bloomberg

No, Subprime Auto Loans Are Not Like Subprime Mortgages - Bloomberg View

Enigma777 :

If you read the article I posted, notice it specifically mentioned that the sub-prime auto lending bubble would not destroy the mega banks but instead the specialized auto lenders - big difference.

But the key emphasis is that the growth in auto sales is fraudulent because it's based on the same fallacy in lending practices/standards that delivered us the mortgage debacle.

Remember in a very short sphere of time the country went from what Bush called the greatest /highest period of home ownership ship to the lowest period of home ownership.

It's highly likely the same thing may happen with regard to the purchase of new automobiles. They're being purchased through a form wizardry.....
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Old 04-07-2016, 08:28 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,222,338 times
Reputation: 17209
GM stock.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...0stock%20price

Ford stock price

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...rd+stock+price

Chrysler.

FCAU - Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV Stock quote - CNNMoney.com

Honda

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...da+stock+price

Toyota

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...ta+stock+price

Wall Street knows what is coming. Seems odd that they are all down despite this good auto market.
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Old 04-08-2016, 03:52 AM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,740,800 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by At-Chilles View Post
Record Auto sales is a huge fallacy. Wall Street has securitized auto lending and vastly reduced the lending standards much in the same way pre 2008 mortgage industry.

Many folks are paying 30 percent, with notes that are 8 to 10 years long. It's just a short matter of time before the automotive sales industry experiences a huge crash...

It Starts: Subprime Auto Loans Implode (in Your Bond Fund) | Wolf Street
Amen. I posted that way back.... Nary a peep
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:01 AM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,740,800 times
Reputation: 1721
And for the individual citing Goldman Sachs... If you believe or trust their analysts in lending, you do realize they are buying subprime housing again?

Besides, in autos, well people can walk, or drive, from a repo'd house. They literally have to walk from their car repo'd

I'd post links but many are too slanted, even in the title, for me to use without starting a semantic debate.

Caveat emptor... Or in Americans case ... Locationis emptor
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