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Old 06-21-2016, 05:24 AM
 
10,829 posts, read 5,441,601 times
Reputation: 4710

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
You said that His Majesty could abolish entire governmental agencies, fire all of their employees, and replace them with entirely new agencies with brand new employees.

There is no way in Hell that a President has that kind of power on his own.
Wrong.

The President is in charge of the executive branch. They are his employees. He can do what he wants with them.

Ronald Reagan fired all the of the air traffic control workers.

No one could stop him from doing that.

So, again, you are wrong.

The best way to do it across the board is simply to close all the agencies and departments and replace them with new ones -- with new employees.
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Old 06-21-2016, 06:10 AM
 
11,988 posts, read 5,300,036 times
Reputation: 7284
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
Wrong.

The President is in charge of the executive branch. They are his employees. He can do what he wants with them.

Ronald Reagan fired all the of the air traffic control workers.

No one could stop him from doing that.

So, again, you are wrong.

The best way to do it across the board is simply to close all the agencies and departments and replace them with new ones -- with new employees.
You are totally wrong.

A president can use his executive power in any number of ways, but he cannot abolish or create federal agencies or fire or hire employees on a whim. Why do you think that civil service laws have been on the books since the days of Chet Arthur?

PATCO was carrying out an illegal strike. Federal employees are prohibited from striking. That's what gave Reagan the authority to take the action that he did. He didn't have the power to fire them on a whim.

Congress has the power of the purse, and with it comes the authority to abolish or establish governmental agencies. A President Trump could recommend actions to Congress, but he would have no power to shut down entire agencies without Congressional authority.
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Old 06-21-2016, 06:49 AM
 
10,829 posts, read 5,441,601 times
Reputation: 4710
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
PATCO was carrying out an illegal strike. Federal employees are prohibited from striking. That's what gave Reagan the authority to take the action that he did. He didn't have the power to fire them on a whim.

Trump wouldn't be firing them on a whim.

He would be firing them for wasting taxpayer money and the various forms of corruption that are commonplace in those agencies.

He would be cutting the fat and laying off hundreds of thousands of unneeded paper shufflers.

He could trim those agencies down to nothing.

Quote:
Congress has the power of the purse
Congress can deny money to the president, but they can't force him to spend money.

Quote:
A President Trump could recommend actions to Congress, but he would have no power to shut down entire agencies without Congressional authority.
So you say.

I think you're wrong.

Agencies in our government have come and gone. It's time for more of them to go.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:02 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,290,712 times
Reputation: 5565
I don't see that happening honestly. Clinton could possibly win in a landslide but I think at this point the best Trump could do is barely eek out a win. He's done too much damage and got too much rebuilding to do.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:15 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,290,712 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
Trump wouldn't be firing them on a whim.

He would be firing them for wasting taxpayer money and the various forms of corruption that are commonplace in those agencies.

He would be cutting the fat and laying off hundreds of thousands of unneeded paper shufflers.

He could trim those agencies down to nothing.

Congress can deny money to the president, but they can't force him to spend money.

So you say.

I think you're wrong.

Agencies in our government have come and gone. It's time for more of them to go.

They can't force him, but the President is required by law to spend the money he requests on the agency he requests it for. This is done to ensure they don't ask for funding for say the military and then divert 200 billion into the EPA or NASA. He doesn't have to ask for the money of course. However, once he asks for it he has to spend it where it was requested. What agencies have come and gone exactly? I'm also pretty sure that wasting taxpayer money isn't a legitimate reasoning for firing unionized federal employees.
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Old 06-21-2016, 07:50 AM
 
8,420 posts, read 7,427,242 times
Reputation: 8774
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
Congress can deny money to the president, but they can't force him to spend money.
Actually, they can.

Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974

Train v. City of New York

Long story short, up until Richard Nixon all presidents had the power of impoundment of appropriated funds. Congress took away the power in 1974 and the Supreme Court supported the law in 1975.
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:23 AM
 
11,988 posts, read 5,300,036 times
Reputation: 7284
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
Trump wouldn't be firing them on a whim.

He would be firing them for wasting taxpayer money and the various forms of corruption that are commonplace in those agencies.

He would be cutting the fat and laying off hundreds of thousands of unneeded paper shufflers.

He could trim those agencies down to nothing.

Congress can deny money to the president, but they can't force him to spend money.

So you say.

I think you're wrong.

Agencies in our government have come and gone. It's time for more of them to go.
When Ben Carson advocated killing the VA, Politico ran an interesting article.

How to kill an agency

Quote:
I called a number of experts for this story who have studied big government reorganization efforts dating back to before World War II. If so many people want to pare government down, I asked, why is it so hard?
The government, it turns out, is almost specifically built to resist shrinkage. First, no matter how much controversy an agency may be engulfed in, it still has its entrenched allies. Department leaders and their underlings often got their jobs precisely because they’re so good at working an inside game with the White House and Congress to preserve their turf. There are also the interest groups that fought to get a department launched in the first place, and lobby for funding every year. In the VA’s case, that would be the veterans themselves. (They immediately jumped down Carson’s throat: The national commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars said he "could not disagree with Dr. Carson more," and Retired Army Major Gen. Paul Eaton called the proposal an “insulting idea.”)

Second, the government itself has rules that make it hard to shrink. Civil service laws protect federal workers from getting sent home with pink slips, complicating a president’s ability to downsize the government. In short, feds can be fired, but the process is cumbersome, requires cause and probably won’t fly if it is just for political reasons.

Perhaps most potent: Congress. The House and Senate ultimately have to sign off on a call like Carson's, and they rarely like the idea. After all, departments and big agencies are their vehicle to exercise power beyond their district and home state. So lawmakers who have worked their way up to committee and subcommittee chairmanships see these bills as personal threats. Obama’s plan to get rid of the hulking Commerce department, which handles everything from the census to protecting saltwater-swimming salmon, sounds like a perfect Republican exercise in government slimming. But it died quickly in a divided Congress. In particular, influential Democratic and GOP committee leaders questioned Obama’s plan to fold the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative into the new department “making it just another corner of a new bureaucratic behemoth."
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:34 AM
 
34,300 posts, read 15,668,712 times
Reputation: 13053
If Trump wins in a landslide, what will Hillary supporters do?

First we have to identify Hillary supporters. They generally can be found hiding from life under the bed curled up in the fetal position with multicolored pacifiers feeding them one fairy tail after another.

After the initial shock of a Trump win we will see some survivors who can cope with reality and advance in a world without fairy tails holding them back.
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
77,771 posts, read 104,810,535 times
Reputation: 49248
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
Wrong.

The President is in charge of the executive branch. They are his employees. He can do what he wants with them.

Ronald Reagan fired all the of the air traffic control workers.

No one could stop him from doing that.

So, again, you are wrong.

The best way to do it across the board is simply to close all the agencies and departments and replace them with new ones -- with new employees.
What Reagan did was a little different: he fired them because they would not return to work; not just because he took a notion to dump them and start over.
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Old 06-21-2016, 08:47 AM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,765 posts, read 2,794,508 times
Reputation: 2366
As a Hillary supporter I would start questioning reality if she lost because that would defy physics.
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