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Old 07-16-2016, 09:37 AM
 
416 posts, read 260,419 times
Reputation: 423

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While we all have fun here poking holes in each others party and candidates, at some point you have to be intellectually honest enough to realize, both sides have their baggage. I'm not going to carry on about Hillary's, other than to say, it's there (you guys on the right will take care of that for me i'm sure).

Trump's issues are obvious, he wears them on his sleeve and in spite of telling us he'll become "more presidential," it just never seems to happen. I suspect in his own mind (and many of his supporters) being Trump is the allure and he figures trying to become something he's not just isn't in the cards.

From what we are reading, Pence was shoved down his throat (my assumption based on how he tried to get out of it the night the deal was done). One can only assume the deal was brokered by Priebus to get Pence in place to shut down the Never Trump folks.

The reality is, that's small potato's to the real elephant in the room...or should i say, lack thereof. This article from back early in May was and still is spot on. It is clear there would be no "third party" candidate surface before, during or after the convention. Stands to reason, that would literally hand the presidency to Hillary.

The biggest problem the Donald faces (other than he is who he is) are the republicans not willing to get on board with Trump. This Article: See List of 99 Top Republicans Who Refuse To Back Trump, is an intriguing read. In that the article is just over 2 months old, maybe some of those names on the right have come around, but then i guess it would put them in the same camp as Sanders eh?

I'm not going to post any of the list, but there's a couple of cuts i think Trump supporters will find tough to swallow. They're not from lefties with an axe to grind, they are from their very own poster children of the right leaning persuasion.

The first is from George Will, venerable Fox News Political analyst wrote this:” If Trump is nominated, the GOP must keep him out of the White House.” And this: Should Trump get the nomination, conservatives would have to “help him lose 50 states – condign punishment for his comprehensive disdain for conservative essentials, including the manners and grace that should lubricate the nation’s civic life."

If that wasn't bad enough, William Kristol, neoconservative and of The Weekly Standard fame, had this to say: “I just don’t think [Trump] has the character to be president of the United States. It’s beyond any particular issue I disagree with him on, or who he picks as VP or something,” and he said he was looking for an independent candidate like Sasse.

I know the argument; these are old school died in the wool folks trying to stay relevant.Unfortunately, they speak to millions of true conservatives who still believe in how things should be done. If Trump goes against the grain of Will and Kristol, you know at the very least there will be all kinds of my right wing friends that if they even bother to vote, they'll be holding their nose while doing so.

That in my humble opinion is Trump's biggest hurdle...well except he still is who he is...but that's exactly why George and Bill wrote what they did.



 
Old 07-16-2016, 09:42 AM
 
Location: United States
12,391 posts, read 7,102,019 times
Reputation: 6135
You can't say Trump will lose because he isn't a conservative, because guess what, conservatives hate Hillary Clinton 1000 times more than Trump.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 09:47 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,288,761 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
You can't say Trump will lose because he isn't a conservative, because guess what, conservatives hate Hillary Clinton 1000 times more than Trump.
Pretty much this. Plus Trump proved, as a lot of us suspected, that the GOP base is not as tied to party orthodoxy as they assumed they were. They prefer a lot of Democratic positions in regards to social welfare. They just don't feel the Democrats represent them anymore is all. You really think the average Southern GOP member who supported all the social welfare programs the Democrats enacted gives a fig about small government?
 
Old 07-16-2016, 09:51 AM
 
529 posts, read 370,172 times
Reputation: 581
Was there really a voice out there saying "Pence is Trump's biggest problem"?

Bobbleheads never seem to amaze me.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Kansas
25,963 posts, read 22,138,411 times
Reputation: 26721
I think since Pence was chosen as the VP pick, the party will come together behind Trump propelling him to victory. It showed that Trump was willing to compromise and work with the party.

Hillary's issues so outweigh Trump's and anyone denying that isn't living in the real world right now. Let's keep the crime family out of the White House, since for some reason, we just can't put them where they really belong, Big House.

Trump is quick study, not confused and can stand the "heat". Pence just gave the Trump train the needed boost to do the distance!
 
Old 07-16-2016, 09:58 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,288,761 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
I think since Pence was chosen as the VP pick, the party will come together behind Trump propelling him to victory. It showed that Trump was willing to compromise and work with the party.

Hillary's issues so outweigh Trump's and anyone denying that isn't living in the real world right now. Let's keep the crime family out of the White House, since for some reason, we just can't put them where they really belong, Big House.

Trump is quick study, not confused and can stand the "heat". Pence just gave the Trump train the needed boost to do the distance!
The VP has no bearing on the race. To believe different is to ignore over 100 years of historical data that says such. Trump could choose Jesus Christ and people still would have issues voting for him. People not desiring to vote for Trump have an issue with Trump. They aren't going to rally behind him because he chose Mike Pence. They will rally behind him when it's evident he is worth supporting. Especially since the people not supporting him are the moderate liberal Republicans. Evangelicals, a.k.a social conservatives, already support him in higher numbers than they did Romney. He's having trouble winning over the Bush/Kasich voters. Even if the pick did make a difference somehow I don't think voters that are best described as nominally Republican are go to get all that thrilled over Mike Pence.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Kansas
25,963 posts, read 22,138,411 times
Reputation: 26721
Well, it puts the party behind him and that is big enough on its own.

I still think the VP choice makes an impact especially in this election. Palin would have hurt the ticket. Warren likewise with the Dems.

I think we will see "historical" data go out the window this time around!
 
Old 07-16-2016, 10:23 AM
 
34,300 posts, read 15,664,869 times
Reputation: 13053
The OP in his opening opinion ignores the most important reason Trump is going to be the president of the U.S. The left falls back on the some old BS to win this election they use for every election.
This election isn't about Trump. This election is about America that is going in a destructive direction.

The voters put Trump where he is. The OP wants us to believe that the election is about Trump. The left has been told time and time again this election isn't about Trump. They won't listen and they don't listen to what the people and voters want. We reject the same old status quo, the same old crap that puts us where we are.

They can't even talk about what they are offering. That's how bad what their offering is. They can't talk about it. Who can blame them. Their offer is to put a criminal enterprise with a background of corruption in the W.H. Someone who's greatest achievement has been special treatment and a double standard to avoid criminal prosecution and is still under FBI investigation.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 10:24 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,288,761 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
Well, it puts the party behind him and that is big enough on its own.

I still think the VP choice makes an impact especially in this election. Palin would have hurt the ticket. Warren likewise with the Dems.

I think we will see "historical" data go out the window this time around!
Yeah, in that you are right. Palin would have been a disaster. I still can't for the life of me figure out what McCain chose her.
 
Old 07-16-2016, 10:26 AM
 
Location: North America
14,204 posts, read 12,288,761 times
Reputation: 5565
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
The OP in his opening opinion ignores the most important reason Trump is going to be the president of the U.S. The left falls back on the some old BS to win this election they use for every election.
This election isn't about Trump. This election is about America that is going in a destructive direction.

The voters put Trump where he is. The OP wants us to believe that the election is about Trump. The left has been told time and time again this election isn't about Trump. They won't listen and they don't listen to what the people and voters want. We reject the same old status quo, the same old crap that puts us where we are.

They can't even talk about what they are offering. That's how bad what their offering is. They can't talk about it. Who can blame them. Their offer is to put a criminal enterprise with a background of corruption in the W.H.
Oh please . Every election every right wingers sings the song that if their candidate doesn't win the U.S. will turn into Beirut circa 1983. Neither candidate is going to be able to achieve much. Which limits the amount of good and bad they will do.
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