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Now look, I voted for Hillary, and I certainly lean democrat. Look at my previous thread history as back-up.
Hell I thought without a doubt Trump stood no chance, so I was wrong, he won..not the popular vote but we all knew the rules going in and like it or not Trump won according to the rules. Do we need to get rid of the electoral college? Sure, but this is not what this thread is about. This is a Dutch-Uncle/finding Jesus post for the Liberals here. Its been almost a week since Hillary lost and when I sat back thinking "she had this in the bag what went wrong" I realized that kind of thinking (along with the protestors) is what went wrong.
ARROGANCE was a huge factor in Clinton's loss..as a whole it looks like turnout was DOWN for this election? How many people thought no way could Clinton lose and just never got around to voting?
the e-mails were another big thing but something that should;ve never gotten that far. Maybe..just maybe if she said "my bad" instead of trying to sweep it under the rug it would've been taken care of a year ago and nobody would care.
But if anything shows a rejection of the Democrats its the behavior POST election and realize that mirrors the PRE behavior and now it wore thin on people...Really get the hell over yourselves. look at it this way:
People can have different opinions without going crybaby...there is a (very underrated) movie from the md-90's called "PCU" with Jeremy Pivon and Jon favreau (spelled wrong i am sure) it was supposed to be a SATIRE but now its a reality and its really sad, can't people just have a good time...if they are being deliberately insulting, like say dressing up in black face or wearing a swastika than yes be mad, but your not a special snowflake, there are people who were up in arms over a mariachi costume...its a costume in Mexico...Mexicans laugh when white people wear it..they are strong people and can handle themselves.
I support Black lives Matter (i'm white) but if anyone kills a cop they are wrong, if you burn down a city and riot you are wrong, march in the streets, make your voices heard but if you resort to violence your message is lost no one condemned those actions
I support gay rights (i'm straight) and as long as no one is causing a disturbance (gay or straight) they can eat and go where they please but you cannot have equal rights and protectionist rights..you just can't have both. you can use a bathroom without announcing your transgender, you can have a pizza with your lover without announcing your together...i know a small minority do this but most people notice your are gay/transgender, they just don't F'n care..then again I am from NY where people literally don't care.
I am college educated but my boss isn't he's making 6 figures and I'm not. Not everyone is made for college and the further along you go in life the more real lfie matters over a piece of paper..your so special you went to college and look down at the person who went to a trade school? rewire your own house and install your own hardwood floor.
and finally religion...Look I call Bill Maher my pastor, I have no use for religion but you can't insult Christians then get up in arms if Muslims are insulted, or Jews are insulted, again we are all equal, its the first amendment..while i do think there are greater threats in this world than saying happy holidays you can;t bend over backwards to accommodate a muslim then try to remove the Christmas tree from town square (its a secular symbol anyway, unless you show me the bible verse of the Christmas tree)
Thank you for a sensible post from a person who voted for Hillary and generally leans Democrat. The United States can get through this if more people will set aside their disappointment and work together on plans that can move our nation forward.
We still have laws protecting people against all types of discrimination--the government is not going to come after individuals who are not breaking any laws. The hysteria about safety is hyperbole that seems to be strong in the urban areas. Maybe they should move to a more tolerant part of the country.
I know some Hispanic police officers that voted for Trump. They just didn't like the way the Dems just immediately took sides. I also think that in those cases where it wasn't obvious what happened, they should have stepped back and waited for the investigation to make some headway.
I know some Hispanic police officers that voted for Trump. They just didn't like the way the Dems just immediately took sides. I also think that in those cases where it wasn't obvious what happened, they should have stepped back and waited for the investigation to make some headway.
Unfortunately both sides are guilty of knee-jerk reactions, but whats worse is instead of changing one's mind to fit the facts its now a case of facts be damned unless it reinforces my view.
but you are 100% correct people were too quick to take sides, but when the media is for profit instead of for truth it has a tendency to fan the flames
Now look, I voted for Hillary, and I certainly lean democrat. Look at my previous thread history as back-up.
Hell I thought without a doubt Trump stood no chance, so I was wrong, he won..not the popular vote but we all knew the rules going in and like it or not Trump won according to the rules. Do we need to get rid of the electoral college? Sure, but this is not what this thread is about. This is a Dutch-Uncle/finding Jesus post for the Liberals here. Its been almost a week since Hillary lost and when I sat back thinking "she had this in the bag what went wrong" I realized that kind of thinking (along with the protestors) is what went wrong.
ARROGANCE was a huge factor in Clinton's loss..as a whole it looks like turnout was DOWN for this election? How many people thought no way could Clinton lose and just never got around to voting?
the e-mails were another big thing but something that should;ve never gotten that far. Maybe..just maybe if she said "my bad" instead of trying to sweep it under the rug it would've been taken care of a year ago and nobody would care.
But if anything shows a rejection of the Democrats its the behavior POST election and realize that mirrors the PRE behavior and now it wore thin on people...Really get the hell over yourselves. look at it this way:
People can have different opinions without going crybaby...there is a (very underrated) movie from the md-90's called "PCU" with Jeremy Pivon and Jon favreau (spelled wrong i am sure) it was supposed to be a SATIRE but now its a reality and its really sad, can't people just have a good time...if they are being deliberately insulting, like say dressing up in black face or wearing a swastika than yes be mad, but your not a special snowflake, there are people who were up in arms over a mariachi costume...its a costume in Mexico...Mexicans laugh when white people wear it..they are strong people and can handle themselves.
I support Black lives Matter (i'm white) but if anyone kills a cop they are wrong, if you burn down a city and riot you are wrong, march in the streets, make your voices heard but if you resort to violence your message is lost no one condemned those actions
I support gay rights (i'm straight) and as long as no one is causing a disturbance (gay or straight) they can eat and go where they please but you cannot have equal rights and protectionist rights..you just can't have both. you can use a bathroom without announcing your transgender, you can have a pizza with your lover without announcing your together...i know a small minority do this but most people notice your are gay/transgender, they just don't F'n care..then again I am from NY where people literally don't care.
I am college educated but my boss isn't he's making 6 figures and I'm not. Not everyone is made for college and the further along you go in life the more real lfie matters over a piece of paper..your so special you went to college and look down at the person who went to a trade school? rewire your own house and install your own hardwood floor.
and finally religion...Look I call Bill Maher my pastor, I have no use for religion but you can't insult Christians then get up in arms if Muslims are insulted, or Jews are insulted, again we are all equal, its the first amendment..while i do think there are greater threats in this world than saying happy holidays you can;t bend over backwards to accommodate a muslim then try to remove the Christmas tree from town square (its a secular symbol anyway, unless you show me the bible verse of the Christmas tree)
I hope all lefties read this. I won't ever agree with all left policies, not a chance, but eliminating all of the hypocrisy would be a very good start to getting people to listen to them.
And before anyone starts in talking about "well the Repugs are hypocrites, too"...I ask, yet again: WTH do you think Trump is now President elect?
Now look, I voted for Hillary, and I certainly lean democrat. Look at my previous thread history as back-up.
Hell I thought without a doubt Trump stood no chance, so I was wrong, he won..not the popular vote but we all knew the rules going in and like it or not Trump won according to the rules. Do we need to get rid of the electoral college? Sure, but this is not what this thread is about. This is a Dutch-Uncle/finding Jesus post for the Liberals here. Its been almost a week since Hillary lost and when I sat back thinking "she had this in the bag what went wrong" I realized that kind of thinking (along with the protestors) is what went wrong.
ARROGANCE was a huge factor in Clinton's loss..as a whole it looks like turnout was DOWN for this election? How many people thought no way could Clinton lose and just never got around to voting?
I'll rep you for a decent post.
I'll add some points/arguments. Some people didn't vote because they didn't like Hillary or Trump. Its simple. This election was very heated and divisive. There were a lot of people watching this election. If it was Jeb vs Hillary...it would be a snooze fest
You can be democrat or republican....there are quite a lot of voters who are sick of the status quo...sick of the establishment. There is a reason why Trump beat out 17 other Republicans in the primary. Most are career politicians. Hillary is a career politician as well. The voters are sending a message.
Now look, I voted for Hillary, and I certainly lean democrat. Look at my previous thread history as back-up.
Hell I thought without a doubt Trump stood no chance, so I was wrong, he won..not the popular vote but we all knew the rules going in and like it or not Trump won according to the rules. Do we need to get rid of the electoral college? Sure, but this is not what this thread is about. This is a Dutch-Uncle/finding Jesus post for the Liberals here. Its been almost a week since Hillary lost and when I sat back thinking "she had this in the bag what went wrong" I realized that kind of thinking (along with the protestors) is what went wrong.
ARROGANCE was a huge factor in Clinton's loss..as a whole it looks like turnout was DOWN for this election? How many people thought no way could Clinton lose and just never got around to voting?
the e-mails were another big thing but something that should;ve never gotten that far. Maybe..just maybe if she said "my bad" instead of trying to sweep it under the rug it would've been taken care of a year ago and nobody would care.
But if anything shows a rejection of the Democrats its the behavior POST election and realize that mirrors the PRE behavior and now it wore thin on people...Really get the hell over yourselves. look at it this way:
People can have different opinions without going crybaby...there is a (very underrated) movie from the md-90's called "PCU" with Jeremy Pivon and Jon favreau (spelled wrong i am sure) it was supposed to be a SATIRE but now its a reality and its really sad, can't people just have a good time...if they are being deliberately insulting, like say dressing up in black face or wearing a swastika than yes be mad, but your not a special snowflake, there are people who were up in arms over a mariachi costume...its a costume in Mexico...Mexicans laugh when white people wear it..they are strong people and can handle themselves.
I support Black lives Matter (i'm white) but if anyone kills a cop they are wrong, if you burn down a city and riot you are wrong, march in the streets, make your voices heard but if you resort to violence your message is lost no one condemned those actions
I support gay rights (i'm straight) and as long as no one is causing a disturbance (gay or straight) they can eat and go where they please but you cannot have equal rights and protectionist rights..you just can't have both. you can use a bathroom without announcing your transgender, you can have a pizza with your lover without announcing your together...i know a small minority do this but most people notice your are gay/transgender, they just don't F'n care..then again I am from NY where people literally don't care.
I am college educated but my boss isn't he's making 6 figures and I'm not. Not everyone is made for college and the further along you go in life the more real lfie matters over a piece of paper..your so special you went to college and look down at the person who went to a trade school? rewire your own house and install your own hardwood floor.
and finally religion...Look I call Bill Maher my pastor, I have no use for religion but you can't insult Christians then get up in arms if Muslims are insulted, or Jews are insulted, again we are all equal, its the first amendment..while i do think there are greater threats in this world than saying happy holidays you can;t bend over backwards to accommodate a muslim then try to remove the Christmas tree from town square (its a secular symbol anyway, unless you show me the bible verse of the Christmas tree)
I'm an independent. I supported Hillary because of, well, you know what the other candidate was like. I considered him, the person, unfit for the office of the Presidency.
I hear what you're saying and agree with some of what you say. But the tone is harsh and unwarranted. I don't think they, including me, were arrogant. The data reflected that almost the whole time that she would win. It's unfair to blame supporters for being happy about that, but I doubt the HRC team took it for granted. I hope the polls and other data are reviewed thoroughly to figure out what went so wrong.
I think the protests are a good thing, if they are nonviolent. It records for history an important thing: the election of what is perhaps the most unqualified and unfit person for President, who bragged about molesting women and made fun of a disabled person, and made entire races/ethnicities feel discriminated against because of his rhetoric (not necessarily his positions; it was his tone and rhetoric). It's not that they lost the election; it's the kind of person who was elected.
I think why some others voted for him is what made me want to vote Republican this time around (although I didn't, because of the candidate). It was Obamacare and the male transgender in the women's bathroom thing. They were two bridges too far for me. I have a right to go to the bathroom in privacy, not next to a strange man. It's not just about safety, although that's part of it. It's that I have a right to privacy. Someone else's right was put ahead of mine, even though there was a logical resolution, which transgenders refused (one stand-alone stall that is unisex; or a unisex multi-stall bathroom for all, in addition to the regular male/female). And Obamacare, which I have and get a partial subsidy for, was a nightmare that was hurting the middle class. What's worse, no one seemed to care, and no one seemed to be working on the unfairness. They simply didn't care. When I posted about my problems with Obamacare, not once...not once...did any leftie ever ask about my problems, concede that I may have had those problems, etc. Instead, I was repeatedly accused of lying. Even when all the ins. cos. started withdrawing and the program started imploding. No one cared one bit that I couldn't find a doctor to take my insurance. I didn't matter. All that mattered was that I pay for someone else's insurance, despite that I live a healthy lifestyle and don't file many claims. I was paying for the obese guy eating pizza on the sofa and shooting up insulin.
It's hard to overestimate the effect that Obamacare and the transgender thing had on the middle class, esp. women.
As a Republican who voted fore neither Trump nor Clinton, the OP has made a number of great points. While HRC was a deeply flawed candidate, I believe that the biggest reasons for her loss were the following:
*Above all else, Clinton lost because the Democrats were so incredibly conceited and complacent. How may posts have we read (on just this forum alone) in which liberals gloated that "demographics" and "the blue wall" would guarantee that Democrats would win the White House?
*So many people are very unhappy with Obama's dismal record as POTUS. HRC made a gamble to tie herself at the hip with Obama. Obviously, her hope was that her promise to be an Obama third term would galvanize minorities and liberal activists. It did not. Instead, it backfired, and voters who were upset about the Obama presidency made their voices heard.
*Somewhat related to the previous bullet point is the fact that the Democrats have moved so far to the left during the Obama Era. For instance, anybody who opposes gay marriage is vilified as a bigot, even though--just five years ago--Obama said that he believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman. And while America is just getting used to the idea of gay marriage being the law of the land, the far-left is now pushing such ideas as genderless bathrooms. While many of Trump's voters would have preferred another Republican, they felt that voting for Trump was their only chance to put a stop to the agenda being pushed by the Social Justice Warriors.
Ironically, instead of moving back to the center, the Democratic base is now saying that they lost because they didn't nominate a "true progressive." Thus, you can expect that people even more liberal than Obama--like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and Bill deBlasio--will now take charge of the Democratic Party.
I think most of the electorate is given too much credit as far as intelligence and they simply knew Trump from the Celebrity Apprentice and WrestleMania and stuck with the known commodity. Same as with Frosted Flakes vs Cracklin' Oat Bran, no one in their right mind would consciously choose a limp and soggy cereal over the delicious goodness that is otherwise available, it's all where they put stuff on the shelf.
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