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I'm guessing the majority of the demonstrators you're referring to are Black. Are you referring to Black people as leftist? The marches I saw on TV were 30=40% white. Do you lump any white person who supports African-American protests as leftist. Do you have any understanding of political ideology or did you just hear someone use this term?
I don't think you know very much about Portland. Portland is the whitest big city in the United States. The African-American population is only 5% and falling. I never said the demonstrators were all black. They have been mixed groups, and I've seen some that were overwhelmingly white.
I don't need to watch it on TV. Did you read what I wrote in my post? I watched this FROM MY BALCONY with my own eyes. How can you be so intentionally naive in asking how did I know the political views of the people doing this? Again, I clearly wrote there is a distinction between peaceful, lawful protesters and a rioting mob. I am talking about the mob, not the peaceful protesters. When a large group swarms the streets past midnight, in a mixed residential/commercial area, with bull horns, claiming they own the streets, and they smash windows and spray graffiti everywhere, chanting slogans beloved of the left, in this environment, it doesn't take a Phd in political science to understand that they are on the left, and probably far left end of the spectrum. So yes, I do have an understanding of political ideology. I have a degree in economics and I am widely read in politics, current events, philosophy, history, etc. So save yourself some time in questioning my ability to reason.
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Originally Posted by villageidiot1
The first couple days of the demonstrations in Pittsburgh caused a lot of damage in the downtown area. The police are gradually arresting people who were caught of videos causing damage and looting. There were videos of Black people telling white people to stop looting and damaging property. One was a 20 year old white kid from the suburbs. It will be interesting to find out what his motivation was. I doubt he will say he is a "leftist." It won't be surprised if he supports Antifa, which is an extreme left-wing movement. I don't see a connection between Antifa and the BLM movement.
The whole point of my post is that this is being perpetrated by leftists, not blacks, not whites, but leftists. BLM and Antifa are very closely aligned in their goals. Portland has a large, active Antifa contingent that riots at the drop of a hat. It is absurd to think that these two groups don't co-operate on some level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by villageidiot1
I'm not putting any blame on Democratic or Republican elected officials. It is obvious we have a problem with a small minority of police, and police unions who protect the guilty. The only elected official I see with responsibility is Trump. All he has done is incited rioting, the same as he did with Charlottesville. This problem won't be solved easily, but it starts with leadership in the White House, and weeding out problem police officers, and the police unions who protect them.
I disagree with you. I am putting a lot of blame on elected officials, both Democrat and Republican. I do believe that police brutality and the militarization of the police is a major problem in this country, a problem that both parties have ignored. I disagree with the narrative being promoted by BLM and their allies that there is widespread systemic racism in police departments and that black people are disproportionately being killed by the police. The facts say otherwise. It has been widely reported by the Washington Post that in 2019, 9 unarmed blacks were killed by the police. While regrettable, this is hardly open season on black people by the police. The media are quick to play up any incident involving white police and black victims, but ignore the situation when it is the other way around.
I agree with you that it is a small minority of police who are causing the problems, like with the officer who killed George Floyd, who had so many complaints and infractions against him. There is a problem with the police unions who protect bad officers, and a problem with good officers who cover for bad officers.
I do find it hard to believe your statement that you don't blame Democrat or Republican elected officials, but you do blame Trump for this. Putting aside any feelings regarding Trump, but the president of the United States, whether it is Trump, Obama, or anyone else, has zero responsibility and zero authority over local police departments. While I will not absolve Republican officials for their failure to reform the police, the fact is that so much of the high profile cases have occurred in cities that have been under the total control of Democrats for decades. They ARE responsible. And now that there is widespread riots, looting, violence, etc, it is most definitely Democratic governors and mayors who have shown little to no leadership, who have allowed so much destruction to take place, and have allowed anarchy on the streets. I can see it from my home. So, we might very well have different opinions, and that's fine, but don't tell me what I have literally seen with my own eyes.
What Democrats are counting on if for Trump to beat himself. But they're repeating the same strategy that failed them in 2016. Since Trump is on the screen everyday, Biden ought to hold news conferences much more often.
That I do agree with...Biden needs to get back out much more in the news cycle.
Trump has a real problem. By just looking at a few states Trump won in 2016 that are Republican stalwarts.
Arizona was won by 3% in 2016 and in polls he trails 4% in a state that has only gone blue once since the 1950's. The Libertarian Party had 4% of the Arizona popular vote with a known candidate in Gov. Johnson and now has a relative unknown this time around so that is about 3% up for grabs and another 1 for the Green Party which might not even run a candidate on the ballot due to the pandemic. Mind you, Arizona is a state with a rise in Covid-19 cases AND hospitalizations.
Florida was won by 1% in 2016 and right now Trump is down 10% and 11% in two Florida polls completed yesterday. Johnson got 2% of the vote in Florida. Florida is another state with a rise in Covid-19 cases, not sure about hospitalizations. Of late, Florida is a must win state for Republicans.
Trump loses Florida at 29 and Arizona at 11, Trump is screwed. Especially if he loses Michigan and Pennsylvania like most think he should (especially when he won those states in 2016 by under 1%) Wisconsin could be included too...
The whole point of my post is that this is being perpetrated by leftists, not blacks, not whites, but leftists. BLM and Antifa are very closely aligned in their goals. Portland has a large, active Antifa contingent that riots at the drop of a hat. It is absurd to think that these two groups don't co-operate on some level.
I disagree with you. I am putting a lot of blame on elected officials, both Democrat and Republican. I do believe that police brutality and the militarization of the police is a major problem in this country, a problem that both parties have ignored. I disagree with the narrative being promoted by BLM and their allies that there is widespread systemic racism in police departments and that black people are disproportionately being killed by the police. The facts say otherwise. It has been widely reported by the Washington Post that in 2019, 9 unarmed blacks were killed by the police. While regrettable, this is hardly open season on black people by the police. The media are quick to play up any incident involving white police and black victims, but ignore the situation when it is the other way around.
I agree with you that it is a small minority of police who are causing the problems, like with the officer who killed George Floyd, who had so many complaints and infractions against him. There is a problem with the police unions who protect bad officers, and a problem with good officers who cover for bad officers.
I do find it hard to believe your statement that you don't blame Democrat or Republican elected officials, but you do blame Trump for this. Putting aside any feelings regarding Trump, but the president of the United States, whether it is Trump, Obama, or anyone else, has zero responsibility and zero authority over local police departments. While I will not absolve Republican officials for their failure to reform the police, the fact is that so much of the high profile cases have occurred in cities that have been under the total control of Democrats for decades. They ARE responsible. And now that there is widespread riots, looting, violence, etc, it is most definitely Democratic governors and mayors who have shown little to no leadership, who have allowed so much destruction to take place, and have allowed anarchy on the streets. I can see it from my home. So, we might very well have different opinions, and that's fine, but don't tell me what I have literally seen with my own eyes.
What are you suggesting should be done?
I'm not aware of any violent protests in this country over the past 30 years that were not the result of police killing a black person. Two years ago Pittsburgh had disruptive protests, that occurred every night in June and July 2018 due to the fatal shooting of a 17-year old African-American. There was little violence or property damage. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooti...e_Jr.#Protests The cop who shot the 17-yearl old African-American boy had been fired by the University of Pittsburgh and hired by a small town outside of Pittsburgh.
The point is, these wrongful police shootings become the trigger for protests, which are increasingly becoming violent. This has become a movement and it is not going away. You blame leftists, but I see much of the violence being committed by opportunists. There may be extreme left-wing groups involved also, but there has been little evidence of this.
Back to my question, what are you suggesting that elected officials should or should have done? A strong police response to the protestors just increases support for the protest. The solution has to be to police reform so there is zero tolerance for police violence. The problem is many mayors have been unable to take on the police unions. This seems to be the problem in Minneapolis, which is also a very white city.
It seems many of the cities were unprepared for these protests for the first few days, but eventually got the situation under control. We have had protest marches in every small town in Western PA, and none of them have become violent or caused property damage. Yet we are only one police caused death of an African-American person to cause more wide spread violent riots.
I agree that the reform has to occur at the city and state level, but the POTUS can and should provide leadership. This POTUS has done nothing but incite more protests.
That I do agree with...Biden needs to get back out much more in the news cycle.
The only reason some want Biden out more is because they think he'll make a bunch of gaffes they can pounce on. Republicans are super angry that Trump's own follies and failures are constantly at the forefront. Personally, given poll trends, I think Biden should continue what he's doing until the debates.
Only thing is Trump hasnt been losing to Biden because Biden has done NOTHING to help or lead us out of this terrible mess then Trump didnt cause.
What exactly should he be doing to lead the country out of the current multi-crises situation? He has no official power to do anything at this point. He can give some speeches, but what else? Isn't Trump, as the current president, actually responsible for all this mess and finding solutions?
Trump has a real problem. By just looking at a few states Trump won in 2016 that are Republican stalwarts.
Arizona was won by 3% in 2016 and in polls he trails 4% in a state that has only gone blue once since the 1950's. The Libertarian Party had 4% of the Arizona popular vote with a known candidate in Gov. Johnson and now has a relative unknown this time around so that is about 3% up for grabs and another 1 for the Green Party which might not even run a candidate on the ballot due to the pandemic. Mind you, Arizona is a state with a rise in Covid-19 cases AND hospitalizations.
Florida was won by 1% in 2016 and right now Trump is down 10% and 11% in two Florida polls completed yesterday. Johnson got 2% of the vote in Florida. Florida is another state with a rise in Covid-19 cases, not sure about hospitalizations. Of late, Florida is a must win state for Republicans.
Trump loses Florida at 29 and Arizona at 11, Trump is screwed. Especially if he loses Michigan and Pennsylvania like most think he should (especially when he won those states in 2016 by under 1%) Wisconsin could be included too...
While he might have a problem, he has time to fix it. He is restarting his campaign rallies. I don't think he'll govern his way into re-election. He's going to rally his way back. But it is too early to draw such conclusions from polls. Since March, the country has drifted left for various reasons. Polls have shown that. On that alone, I'd agree "Trump is in some trouble." But I don't think he's going to lose Florida by 10 points. To be fair, losing by 0.1 points or 10 points is essentially the same as far as the Electoral College goes.
4.5 months is a long time. Much could happen. Trump and his administration are pushing really hard that we are done with coronavirus, even if it isn't done with us. From a pure strategic standpoint, ignoring the coronavirus and playing it down is the best bet for him. If he continued with his task force briefings, it would further the notion that coronavirus is a problem and Trump is responsible for it (why have task force meetings if it is no big deal and if there is nothing you could do about it?).
Trump is banking on the average American NOT contracting coronavirus and NOT directly knowing people that die from it. The first is a gimme. We won't have 165 million cases by November. Even though the death count is over 100k, most people don't know anyone that has died from it. Think 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon. So for many Americans, this is an invisible problem with very real consequences. Hence, it is easy to chalk it up to "Democratic Hoax and Fake News!" Nevermind the rest of the world. They are going through what we are. I suppose that would mean American Democrats are running the show for the other 7.5 billion people on this planet?
While he might have a problem, he has time to fix it. He is restarting his campaign rallies. I don't think he'll govern his way into re-election. He's going to rally his way back. But it is too early to draw such conclusions from polls. Since March, the country has drifted left for various reasons. Polls have shown that. On that alone, I'd agree "Trump is in some trouble." But I don't think he's going to lose Florida by 10 points. To be fair, losing by 0.1 points or 10 points is essentially the same as far as the Electoral College goes.
4.5 months is a long time. Much could happen. Trump and his administration are pushing really hard that we are done with coronavirus, even if it isn't done with us. From a pure strategic standpoint, ignoring the coronavirus and playing it down is the best bet for him. If he continued with his task force briefings, it would further the notion that coronavirus is a problem and Trump is responsible for it (why have task force meetings if it is no big deal and if there is nothing you could do about it?).
Trump is banking on the average American NOT contracting coronavirus and NOT directly knowing people that die from it. The first is a gimme. We won't have 165 million cases by November. Even though the death count is over 100k, most people don't know anyone that has died from it. Think 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon. So for many Americans, this is an invisible problem with very real consequences. Hence, it is easy to chalk it up to "Democratic Hoax and Fake News!" Nevermind the rest of the world. They are going through what we are. I suppose that would mean American Democrats are running the show for the other 7.5 billion people on this planet?
You make some good points. I think for Trump to make a comeback at this point, however, it would take the pandemic to disappear, and the economy to come back to close to where it was back in February. Trump will keep making fatal errors. It won't affect his diehard base, but he is gradually winning support from average people who voted for him in 2016. He will have trouble surviving the Bolton book that is getting lots of media attention today. It appears to have more than enough dirt on Trump that would have put tremendous pressure for Republican senators to vote to convict him. In March, another book comes out from his niece that will provide a lot of dirt on his income tax evasion.
Back in the old days before the Internet and streaming TV, the public would have read about this in their local newspaper, and watched Walter Cronkite, and Huntley & Brinkley report on it the evening news. These days are gone, however, and many Americans have no idea what is going on in the national news besides what they get from social media. This lack of awareness of the national political scene is the only thing saving Trump from the worst defeat in American political history.
Winning a 2nd term is much easier than winning the 1st time. Just about every previous sitting President the last 2 decades has won re-election. Even folks who said Obama will a one timer was wrong. Bush W was incredibly unpopular, he was less talented than Biden, Trump, or Obama. Surprisingly Trump actually has more black supporters than Bush W.
Clinton won re-election even after he was impeached and acquitted. Obama was incredibly unpopular with Whites and Republicans but he won by a landslide against Mitt Romney because the economy was slowly improving and people want more of the same.
Winning re-election is much easier for a sitting President because there is a group of Americans that don't listen to the media and they rather have less change during times of uncertainty than have to take a risk on a different person. As long as the economy does not get any worse, Trump is assured a 2nd term. Because Biden is even worse than Hillary as a candidate. Many people did not vote for Trump the 1st time because he was unproven and not a politician. But now he has been groomed he will gain new voters while holding on to his supporters.
It is believed that 94% of Trump supporters remained loyal which is very high.
There are lots of new Trump supporters that will out vote people that hated him during the previous election. So his popular votes this election will be much higher than previous election. He was behind Hillary by 9 million votes. I believe he may actually be behind by less than 2 million popular votes this time. I don't think Biden will unseat him since Biden has kept himself out of the spotlight throughout this year.
Now which candidate in the past has stay hidden this long with less than 5 months to go before the election?? Trump campaigned around the country almost all of 2016 leading up to the election, how can Joe Biden beat Mr. Trump when he hardly ever shows up in the news?
During the early primaries, it is said that Joe Biden's rallies have less people than Bernie or Buttrieg's. So the Democrats picked a candidate that was actually weaker than his opponents?
So I hope after the election people can reply to this thread and tell me that I am wrong. Since I predicted the result of the previous election that Trump will win while everybody laughed and said it was impossible. The Democrats blew it because they didn't want Bernie to win and sweep the country far to the left. Everybody that endorses Biden like AOC did are being paid for lip service. For the media to drum up all this fake poll numbers of Biden beating Trump will blow up in their faces again this election how terribly wrong again they are.
You need to brush up on your history! Clinton was impeached in 1998, 2 years AFTER his reelection. Obama was not "incredibly unpopular". In fall of 2012, his job approval was 52% approve to 45% disapprove. Three of the last 6 Presidents lost their bid for a second term (Ford, Carter and Bush Sr).
But I agree that the incumbent has a built in advantage. I also agree that Trump's base has been incredibly loyal. But Hillary Clinton had a lot of baggage and scandals; Biden is a much better candidate. Also, a lot of people thought maybe Trump would behave better after the election, but have found out that he is an even worse human being than they imagined.
As far as Biden being hidden, it may turn out to be a blessing. Napoleon said "Never interfere with your enemy when he is making a mistake". The best thing Biden could do is sit back and watch Trump destroy himself over Covid-19 and the racial strife.
I expect the outcome in 2020 will be similar to 2016, with Biden winning the popular vote and Trump winning the Electoral College. However, recent polls show Biden pulling ahead in the battleground states, so who knows?
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