Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-21-2008, 01:12 PM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,453,101 times
Reputation: 3050

Advertisements

The conservative argument (and that of the John McCain campaign) is that Obama’s stated plan to raise taxes on households making $250,000 or more in income is a tax increase on small business.

The simple answer to this dilemma can be found in the
IRS Statistics of Income Bulletin (Table 1.4, for those who are interested).

So what do the data say?

In 2006 (the latest year available), $706 billion of such income was reported to the Internal Revenue Service.

Of this, about half was reported by households in the top marginal income tax rate.
Interestingly, two-thirds of this income was reported by households making $250,000 per year or more — the very same households that Obama wants to increase taxes on.

The Obama campaign maintains that the number of small-business owners is what’s important.



Make no mistake about it:

Obama’s plan to raise taxes on households making more than $250,000 will raise taxes on most small-business profits in America.


What type of tax rate are we talking about? Currently, S corporations face a top tax rate of 35 percent, while sole proprietors and general partners face a tax rate of 37.9 percent (since they’re responsible for paying both income tax and the Medicare component of the payroll tax).

Under Obama’s plan to let the scheduled 2011 tax rate hikes occur, and his plan to raise the self-employment tax on those making more than $250,000, the S corporation rate would rise from 35 percent to 39.6 percent.

The sole proprietor and partner rate would rise from 37.9 percent all the way up to a staggering 50.3 percent.

Many Democrats in Congress have proposed making all small businesses (including S corporations) pay this 50-plus percent rate.

A small business tax rate that high would be the highest marginal rate faced by them in nearly a quarter-century.

Fewer Americans would be interested in opening or expanding small businesses.
Tax evasion and legal tax avoidance would spike, as tax shelters would once again become a booming industry.
Since small businesses create a majority of jobs in America, Main Street closing up shop will have a direct impact on the family budget, as well.
Despite the misguided opinions of static scorers in Washington, federal tax revenues will likely decline as the economy staggers into a full-on recession.

What’s the alternative?
One place to look is the optional alternate tax system originally proposed by Congressman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) and now endorsed by McCain.
It would give households (including those with small business income) a choice between the current tax code and one with a top rate of 25 percent on all income over $100,000.
This would have the beneficial effect of lowering the tax rate on most small-business income by 10 percentage points.
Small businesses haven’t faced a tax rate that low in quite some time and would be likely to respond with the creation of new businesses and more investment in existing businesses.





An argument against Obama's tax plan - Grover G. Norquist - Politico.com





.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-21-2008, 01:46 PM
 
673 posts, read 2,717,611 times
Reputation: 421
Here's a great link that describe's Obama's planned costs to small business. The tax "advantages" like capital gains tax break and self-employment credit of $500 are minimal and will not balance or outweigh the costs. It comes across that Obama has no understanding of what it is like to operate a small business.

http://www.sbecouncil.org/uploads/Ca...2028%20pdf.pdf

Also, Obama doesn't seem to take into account that:
- Income fluctuates for small businesses
- Income doesn't reflect any business's entire financial picture
- Small businesses have been struggling since 9-11
- Many have no healthcare, no savings, debt and property in need of repair
- Many have gone out of business and no longer generate revenue or jobs

While some small businesses are corporations by status, they have little in common with large corporations: tax breaks, reserves, off-shoring, etc. The majority of small businesses are much more like middle class Americans in terms of income and more like lower class Americans in terms of debt and lack of savings.

Working for someone else is less stressful, usually more stable and often has fringe benefits like healthcare. So what's the incentive to run a small business under Obama? And do we really want small business, the original foundation of our economy, to fade from our economy?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2008, 02:18 PM
 
7,359 posts, read 10,281,581 times
Reputation: 1893
Hello? Under the current tax structure, Wall Street has tanked and the economy is on the verge of collapse. *Knock, knock* Anybody home?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2008, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,237 posts, read 18,594,984 times
Reputation: 25807
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Hello? Under the current tax structure, Wall Street has tanked and the economy is on the verge of collapse. *Knock, knock* Anybody home?

It wasn't due to tax police. We had GDP growth of 3.3% last quarter. The economy is not collapsed and "Wall Street" has not tanked. Look at stock values.

Jeez, take an economics course.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2008, 02:24 PM
 
Location: OC, CA
3,309 posts, read 5,703,584 times
Reputation: 663
Obama wont tax you directly, but everything around you will be taxed meaning you pay more for virtually everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2008, 02:33 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,061 posts, read 44,866,510 times
Reputation: 13718
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocexpo View Post
Obama wont tax you directly, but everything around you will be taxed meaning you pay more for virtually everything.
You can try, but they'll never understand that Obama's tax increases will impact the very people who can least afford it.

They seem to exist in some magic la la land where the cost of increased taxes, doing business, production, distribution, etc., isn't passed on to the end user.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2008, 02:37 PM
 
Location: OC, CA
3,309 posts, read 5,703,584 times
Reputation: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You can try, but they'll never understand that Obama's tax increases will impact the very people who can least afford it.

They seem to exist in some magic la la land where the cost of increased taxes, doing business, production, distribution, etc., isn't passed on to the end user.
Well, its pure stupidity. I hear Obama say "we will tax those big corporations" but little does he realize that the poorest rely on those "big corporations" for jobs and goods. If they are taxed, say, $1,000,000,000/year more, then where do you think those comanies will get that extra money? They will likely lay off workers, and raise prices for their supplies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2008, 02:38 PM
 
Location: CLT native
4,280 posts, read 11,319,274 times
Reputation: 2301
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You can try, but they'll never understand that Obama's tax increases will impact the very people who can least afford it.

They seem to exist in some magic la la land where the cost of increased taxes, doing business, production, distribution, etc., isn't passed on to the end user.
If taxes become to restrictive, I would shut down my small business, liquidate my assets and there would be 50+ families out of work...

Reagan style 'trickle down' works.
Do not high-tax the people who create the majority of the jobs in this country...(small business)

Last edited by mullman; 09-21-2008 at 03:06 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2008, 02:39 PM
 
12,669 posts, read 20,453,101 times
Reputation: 3050
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
You can try, but they'll never understand that Obama's tax increases will impact the very people who can least afford it.

They seem to exist in some magic la la land where the cost of increased taxes, doing business, production, distribution, etc., isn't passed on to the end user.
I think it is because of the word "FREE" It stops blood flow to the brain!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-21-2008, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,961,908 times
Reputation: 7118
His ideas and policies will absolutely kill growth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:30 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top