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The poster stated: "When he says he should have done more, I doubt that he was talking about walking around with a protest sign"
The only Ayers statement I've found regarding "doing more" has him saying he wished he'd done more to oppose the war, NOT more bombing. I asked the poster for a source of him saying he wished he bombed more, a source still not supplied.
And I'm old enough to remember ALL the crap perpetrated during that era.
Ayers? Small potatoes.
The President of the US was a domestic terrorist at the time
The Governor of Ohio was a domestic terrorist, directly responsible for domestic murders
The Governor of California was a domestic terrorist, calling for a bloodbath to end student demonstrations
You're the one with the Gumpian view of the world.
"Bull" heck of a retort or is that your first name?
Deny if you like but Ayres was a founder of his lil group and he encouraged bombings. Lets hope he gets his just reward, lets hope someone that lost a loved one wants to say hello, sounds fair to me.
I simply can't believe how crazy you people are! How can you hold Obama accountable for actions that were taken when he was a kid? Are you personally willing to vouch that every person you've ever known has a squeaky clean record? Can you prove it?
Nobody's holding Ears accountable for the bombings. We're holding him accountable for STUPIDITY, poor choice of friends and arrogance from someone who may not even be an American for all we know. Where does his loyalty really lie? What else did his tramp mother teach him? Seems a lot more **** is coming out of his woodpile, now we learn he was butt buddies with some Palestinian who has even more grayer areas then Ayres. Now all the Acorn garbage, that fix ain't gonna fly. Oh did I mention he's half colored?
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,340 posts, read 54,462,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironclad
"Bull" heck of a retort or is that your first name?
Deny if you like but Ayres was a founder of his lil group and he encouraged bombings. Lets hope he gets his just reward, lets hope someone that lost a loved one wants to say hello, sounds fair to me.
I pray Robert MacNamara and his ilk get their just rewards. He and his cohorts commited more terrorist acts than Ayers ever dreamed of and are responsible for the loss of over 58,000 loved ones. Ayers is a blip in time compared to those atrocities.
The only reason Ayers is currently in the news is McCain has nothing else to offer.
Prove WHAT? That the government sent armed agents to face unarmed students carrying rocks? That a man need be responsible for where he points a gun? That using deadly force in the face of rocks is a load of crap? You're an apologist for a deadly wrong, nothing else.
I've read far more about these murders, and spin 'til you *********rself thru the earth to China, THAT's what they were, than I'd ever hoped to as well as having had extended conversations with someone who was there that day. This was plain and simple terrorism perpetrated by the US government and far beyond anything Ayers was ever accused of, let alone convicted.
You said the shots were aimed. I said prove it. You can't because they weren't. Furthermore, your response proves you don't know the actual facts of what led up to May 4th. It was a horribly tragic event that never should have happened, BUT it was precipitated by violent protests. The National Guard never would have been there if there hadn't been violent protests leading up to that day. AGAIN, that's why using violence is NOT the the way to protest.
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IF Ayers is the great monster he's being portrayed as WHY hasn't he been front page news for years?
All this flap is NOTHING but a lame attempt by the McCain camp to boost his sagging campaign, and it ain't working.
Obviously to you - but not to many others. Deal with it.
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The US Government used guerrilla tactics, firing on unarmed civilians, on its own soil and NEVER owned up to it's abuse of power.
Why was the National Guard called in? You don't even know, do you? Why did the Guardsmen fire? You don't know. Read the court transcripts sometime. Don't rely on hearsay.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,340 posts, read 54,462,599 times
Reputation: 40741
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
You said the shots were aimed. I said prove it. You can't because they weren't. Furthermore, your response proves you don't know the actual facts of what led up to May 4th. It was a horribly tragic event that never should have happened, BUT it was precipitated by violent protests. The National Guard never would have been there if there hadn't been violent protests leading up to that day. AGAIN, that's why using violence is NOT the the way to protest.
.
Nothing personal but I think you're far off base. How old are you? Did you live through these events are are you just reading about them? Are you trying to tell me it's a good thing for agents of the US Government to be sent off with loaded weapons and NOT know what they're doing with them?
You should NEVER point a weapon unless you know what you're pointing at. There's only two possibilities.
1) They knew what they were pointing at
2) They acted irresponsibily
Either one makes the government guilty of domestic terrorism and the murder of 4 civilians, far beyond what Ayers has been accused of. Your apology for the government is not and will never be accepted.
William Ayers, the University of Illinois Chicago distinguished professor of education, a man who helped transform Chicago Public Schools with a nationally recognized reform program, responds to critics like Sean Hannity who have tried to paint Ayers as a "radical terrorist." Notes that his actions were directed to stop the Vietnam War.
No, I would not condone anyone that takes a life...which Ayers never did, but McCain did! Choose your own heroes and I'll choose mine. Mine certainly will not be a war monger like McCain and his wolf killing running mate.
If Ayers is your hero, you are a very screwed up person.
Ask the woman of 90 who tried to kill herself because she was going to lose her home due to policies that McCain and his "ilk" allowed to happen, whether she cares about Obama's past associates or McCains old associates? She and many like her are more woried about the here and now and not the point scoring to try to rock the credibility of a candidate. Obama and ayers are not going on "junkets" or holidays or even have any contact with each other. A bit less finger pointing and a bit more telling the people why you should be President is now needed.
Nothing personal but I think you're far off base. How old are you? Did you live through these events are are you just reading about them? Are you trying to tell me it's a good thing for agents of the US Government to be sent off with loaded weapons and NOT know what they're doing with them?
And I've already said you don't know what you're talking about. You don't even have a grasp of the basic sequence of events, let alone the more detailed information. I'm in my 60s, and yes I did live through these events and the subsequent court cases. I was opposed to what was going on at the time like many people, and I'll say it again - violence is NOT the way to protest; there's too much of a risk that events careen out of control and escalate, exactly what happened at Kent State.
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You should NEVER point a weapon unless you know what you're pointing at. There's only two possibilities.
1) They knew what they were pointing at
2) They acted irresponsibily
Either one makes the government guilty of domestic terrorism and the murder of 4 civilians, far beyond what Ayers has been accused of.
Your premise is only correct in a controlled environment. Such was not the case.
Ayers IS a domestic terrorist - his violent acts were premeditated and deliberate.
Ask the woman of 90 who tried to kill herself because she was going to lose her home due to policies that McCain and his "ilk" allowed to happen, whether she cares about Obama's past associates or McCains old associates? She and many like her are more woried about the here and now and not the point scoring to try to rock the credibility of a candidate. Obama and ayers are not going on "junkets" or holidays or even have any contact with each other. A bit less finger pointing and a bit more telling the people why you should be President is now needed.
"Together both firms have less than 90 billion dollars in capital reserves to ensure losses on more than five trillion dollars in mortgage debt.
Could anyone reasonably believe that a two percent reserve fund can cover all the losses that are likely to be seen? ... Clearly, Fannie and Freddie would have no ability to survive without a government bailout. This means that taxpayers will be on the hook for hundreds of billions of losses, perhaps even more than one trillion."
Hagel, Sununu, Dole, McCain (all Republicans) repeatedly tried to rein in Fannie and Freddie. The Democrats repeatedly blocked those attempts.
The legislative history:
* On July 31, 2003, Sununu joined Senators Chuck Hagel (R-NE) and Elizabeth Dole (R-NC) in introducing legislation to strengthen and improve the oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This bill (S. 1508) passed the Senate Banking Committee in April 2004.
* On January 26, 2005, Sununu, Hagel, and Dole re-introduced legislation (S. 190) to improve oversight of GSE’s. A bill incorporating many provisions of the Sununu, Hagel, Dole legislation passed the Committee by a vote of 11 – 9 on July 28, 2005.
McCain's (McCain was a cosponsor of the bill) statement of support for S. 190: "I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.
* On April 12, 2007, Sununu, Hagel, Dole, and Senator Mel Martinez (R-FL) re-introduced legislation (S. 1100) to improve oversight of GSE’s. The major reforms in their bill were included in final legislation passed the Senate on July 26, 2008 and was signed into law on July 30, 2008.
The first 2 attempts at reform legislation made it out of committee, but the Dems refused to support them, so the bills never would have received the 60 votes (super-majority) required to pass cloture, and so both bills died.
Not until July of 2008 did the Dems jostle themselves out of their 'nothing's wrong at Fannie and Freddie' stupor to support the 3rd attempt at passing GSE oversight legislation.
Too late - U.S. Taxpayers will owe $1-2 trillion for bad debts because the Democrats were too busy playing politics to do the right thing.
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