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Excellent point. Bush gets all the blame, despite the actual causes, but the fact that we didn't have a total meltdown isn't credited to him.
if we didn't have a stock meltdown in August - September, then what was it?
If we didn't have credit freeze in October - January then what was it?
What do you consider or anyone consider a total melt down? True answers please not pointing fingers at Bush or Obama. What would be considered a total meltdown?
Excellent point. Bush gets all the blame, despite the actual causes, but the fact that we didn't have a total meltdown isn't credited to him.
Crediting Bush for not driving the economy into an actual Great Depression, but just coming close, during his administration is like crediting Adolf Hitler for not exterminating all the Jews, just coming close.
As much as I detest BushII, a never-elected war criminal, to lay ALL the blame for our current depression on him is not to understand the process, which began in 1973.
At that time we lowered our tariffs to meaningless levels, and the industrial jobs (our true single export) rolled out. At the time, Nat Geo was running a feature on the Great Lakes region and said the obvious: "The decline in American manufacturing today is precisely as steep as was its rise post-WWII."
And of course, it is industrial strength, not trade, which determines a country's wealth.
Since then, we've reverted back to the severe boom-bust cycle we saw from 1880-1929.
We tried to go with a lower-wage Service Economy; we were told by "experts" to "diversify."
Yet, even if we did as they said everytime the major industrial employer of an area went belly-up because it could not compete with foreign firms paying far less (1.00/hr for Mexico; 16 cents per hour for China. Even Japanese automakers make only 80% of their few remaining US counterparts. In Korea $5.00 in a car factory is top pay.) the region died, diversification, or not.
And now we have the current depression, which the talking heads say is only a "steep recession". and point to the unemployment levels as proof. Yet they conviently forget (not in their financial interest) to report that under Carter, and 1st implimented under Reagan, the way unemployment is counted was changed, so that the reported rate is approx. 50% of the real rate, now called the "Misery Index" by BLS, and rarely reported.
Then there's the second lie: that this was caused solely by a failure in the real estate market and financials.
This also is seen through the prism of political expediency.
The fact is that since we lost our economy in '73 we've tried to power-through by various booms that we knew HAD to be temporary by their very nature.
First there was Reagan's jobs program, called the Defense Build-up.
Then there was the S&L scam.
Under Clinton we started the Dot.Com bubble and the Housing Bubble. This continued with a desperate vengence under BushII, and was the ONLY sector of the economy to emerge from the 2000 Recession.
Yet, through it all, most Americans continued to slide downward into working poverty. This was first noted by Nebraska U. economist Wallace Peterson, who labeled the process "The Silent Depression" back in 1991 (and it's not so silent now, is it?).
Then in 1995, an SMU economist, Dr. Ravi Batra, showed his collegues that the impossible had happened: for the first time, real wages (the only source of dollars for 80% of Americans, vs the widely reported, more optimistic "average income") had fallen (to that point by 25%). He tied this unprecedented event to the other unprecedented event in our current affairs:
Our conversion from a protectionist economy to one of free trade.
And now we've reached bottom. Granted the last 8 years with its unsucerssful oil war, and Cooledge-style transfer of resources Up the social ladder hurried on our demise, but as can be clearly shown, our problems run far deeper than the media and our corporately-sponsored leaders are telling us.
Last edited by Geechie North; 03-29-2009 at 10:09 AM..
Crediting Bush for not driving the economy into an actual Great Depression, but just coming close, during his administration is like crediting Adolf Hitler for not exterminating all the Jews, just coming close.
I note how you changed the question then went off on some tangent rather than dispute the facts. The question for your recap was, did Bush stop the "meltdown" from taking place, not if Bush drove the economy down.
I guess when you cant dispute facts, Hitler is always a good name to bring up...
I note how you changed the question then went off on some tangent rather than dispute the facts. The question for your recap was, did Bush stop the "meltdown" from taking place, not if Bush drove the economy down.
I guess when you cant dispute facts, Hitler is always a good name to bring up...
He did NOT change the question - he directly responded to it..
I notice in ALL your posts, you are personally demeaning and insulting.. if I were MrBob - I wouldn't give you the satisfaction of a reply...
MrBob (and I) have posted dozens of times explaining in detail, with numerous references, why we think that Bush is primarily (not solely) to blame for the economic catastrophe we are in.. And every single time an Obama Hater either totally ignores the post, or spins it into outer space...
Trying to debate anything with an Obama Hater is like spitting into the wind...
If you want to see where MrBob stands - research his prior posts - it's all out there - numerous times. If you're too lazy to do so - that's your problem - but don't ask for the same info to be posted over and over ad-nauseum...
MrBob - I STRONGLY encourage you NOT to respond with another detailed post that clearly supports your opinion... no need to do this over and over and over and over when no one on the other side intends to listen...
Let them search our postings on their own dime - we shouldn't waste another second on things that we've clearly explained numerous times already...
He did NOT change the question - he directly responded to it..
I notice in ALL your posts, you are personally demeaning and insulting.. if I were MrBob - I wouldn't give you the satisfaction of a reply...
MrBob (and I) have posted dozens of times explaining in detail, with numerous references, why we think that Bush is primarily (not solely) to blame for the economic catastrophe we are in.. And every single time an Obama Hater either totally ignores the post, or spins it into outer space...
Trying to debate anything with an Obama Hater is like spitting into the wind...
If you want to see where MrBob stands - research his prior posts - it's all out there - numerous times. If you're too lazy to do so - that's your problem - but don't ask for the same info to be posted over and over ad-nauseum...
MrBob - I STRONGLY encourage you NOT to respond with another detailed post that clearly supports your opinion... no need to do this over and over and over and over when no one on the other side intends to listen...
Let them search our postings on their own dime - we shouldn't waste another second on things that we've clearly explained numerous times already...
Reps to you MrBoB!!!
He absolutely positive did change the question. To make it even worse, he's the one that posted the thread.
The question again so you can try to follow along with the thread QUESTION: I'm confused, we were close to a meltdown under Bush, but we didnt have one. Are you now crediting Bush with saving us from a total Depression?
ANSWER: Crediting Bush for not driving the economy into an actual Great Depression, but just coming close, during his administration is like crediting Adolf Hitler for not exterminating all the Jews, just coming close.
If not Bush, who EXACTLY stopped the "economic meltdown"? Go ahead and say Obama, I need a good laugh... He hasnt been in office long enough to credit for stopping an "economic meltdown", his plans havent even been put into action yet.
p.s. I'm not an Obama hater, I'm a government spending hater, the fact that you dont know the difference further shows why your having trouble following along..
He absolutely positive did change the question. To make it even worse, he's the one that posted the thread.
The question again so you can try to follow along with the thread QUESTION: I'm confused, we were close to a meltdown under Bush, but we didnt have one. Are you now crediting Bush with saving us from a total Depression?
ANSWER: Crediting Bush for not driving the economy into an actual Great Depression, but just coming close, during his administration is like crediting Adolf Hitler for not exterminating all the Jews, just coming close.
If not Bush, who EXACTLY stopped the "economic meltdown"? Go ahead and say Obama, I need a good laugh... He hasnt been in office long enough to credit for stopping an "economic meltdown" that was stopped before he took office..
p.s. I'm not an Obama hater, I'm a government spending hater, the fact that you dont know the difference further shows why your having trouble following along..
I'm not falling for your bait... sorry...
THe information you request has been posted ad-nauseum by MrBob and myself and others on these forums for months... go find them.
THe information you request has been posted ad-nauseum by MrBob and myself and others on these forums for months... go find them.
Let me translation: You dont want to actually have to either admit that the economy wasnt as bad as everyone else claimed it was, or admit it was that bad and have to defend bush because he was the president at the time it was "saved"...
Crediting Bush for not driving the economy into an actual Great Depression, but just coming close, during his administration is like crediting Adolf Hitler for not exterminating all the Jews, just coming close.
It would be like giving Bush credit for the world trade center not being attacked after 9/11.
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