Americans and European ancestry (license, expensive, cultures, foreigners)
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When I travel abroad and people ask where I'm from "the US" or "American" are never my answers. Depending on the context, I always say the city or state that i'm from.
I assume that, in talking to me, most people are smart enough to figure out that english is my first language and that they're also smart enough to know that Philadelphia is not a city in Australia.
To me, saying "I'm American" does little to describe anyone.
It's like saying "I'm British". OK. Growing up in London is a completely different experience from growing up in Belfast or Cardiff or Glasgow or Liverpool.
False.I'm not sure why there's so much American bashing on here but until you've surveyed most Americans then I'd venture to say that blanket statement is inaccurate.
I suppose you know that there will not be an answer forthcoming concerning why there's so much American Bashing on here.
Nationality - 1. The status of belonging to a particular nation by origin, birth, or naturalization. in other words, the name of the country on your passport. Unless you have multiple passports you only have one nationality
ethnicity - an ethnic quality or affiliation resulting from racial or cultural ties.
ethnic - Of, relating to, or characteristic of a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage.
I've recently applied for my italian passport because I have a right to Italian citizenship through my great-grandfather. When I land in Milan my nationality is Italian. When I land back in Philly my nationality is American.
A lot of americans don't realize that regional languages in this country only started to disappear after WWI.
Until then French was still common in New Orleans and the border regions with Quebec/New Brunswick - and the Walloon version in Wisconsin. Dutch could still be heard in northern NJ and adjacent parts of NY. German was common in Allentown, Reading, Lancaster, etc. up until WWII
Spanish has always been common in the southwest.
Not that everyone spoke these languages but they were languages of home and hearth and most of the people speaking them were 2nd or 3rd generation.
Amish still speak old German in Lancaster, Spanish is still spoken by descendants of Spanish settlers in the mouth of Missisipi (they arrived in 1776) and Taos, Cajun is still spoken and many high class Louisianans, even from English background, speak beautiful French.
This "uniformization" came with jingoism and manifest destiny. The Founding Fathers, perhaps the most brilliant group of human beings that ever got together to write the most beautiful piece of paper, spoke 4 to 6 languages each.
Sorry you had to go to a Model school with the son of proletarians!!!! With no special "experimental" programs, with almost no foreign student, an Iraki!!, please!! Yes, children of Nomenklatura had access to privileged schools (mainly army academies) because they could pay private classes (the key to inequality)....and had access to textbooks and info most other don't (travels to the west, bourgeois origin, etc).
And of course, there were marginal schools for proletarians were people were diverted to work in factories. The education in the US is not comparable, since it places all responsability on the children and parents and..how could you even compare?
Cojoncillo/Manolon - you have no idea what you are talking about; there is a substantial mess-up in your knowledge when it's coming to the Soviet Union.
"Sons of proletarians" were children like me; some were very dense and some were very bright and capable students. You don't have a clue, apparently, that ALL Soviet schools were operating on a different premises comparably to American schools. First of all Soviet system of education was set to discover the most capable kids in math and science at the young age and the Soviet government didn't care what background of those kids was, or whether they were boys or girls. That's why the bar was raised pretty high already in elementary through middle school; physics and chemistry were taught since the 5th grade. This was a COMMON PROGRAM for ALL schools. By the seventh grade, when all the kids were already thoroughly tested for their abilities, it was becoming clear who could keep up with the further education and who could not. Children from the "proletarian" families were often quitting secondary school at this point and were going to "technical schools," where they were still continuing the education with easier program and learning trade. After that - yes, many of them were going to work at the factories, where usually their parents worked. However, if they were capable students in secondary schools, they were staying there until the tenth grade, and then they were applying for Universities, like anyone else. Now starting from the ninth grades or so, practically ALL parents were paying for tutors, because the competition to get to ( particularly to prestigious) Universities was huge, if to keep in mind that the higher education was free as well. So it was not enough to have good high school diploma, but it was extremely important to pass the entry test to the Universities as well. In order to prepare their children for the last school test and for the entry test in Universities, parents of ALL students were paying pretty penny for tutors.
So this is what I was trying to explain to you, that children from "nomenclatura" families in our school without any particular abilities in math and science went to prestigious University of foreign languages, children of "proletariat" families - those who were capable in math and science - went to technical universities. Very few students in our grade left in 7th-8th grade to join technical schools.
Now where would the children of the members of Politburo ( the government that is) would go, what secondary schools they were attending - that I don't know.
Say that to some Russians here, who think that I am a hater of the Soviet Union and my goal is to bash Russia on this forum)))
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you must know know that human beings do no eat "slogans" and defecate "orders of the day".
So if you settle a country with Finnish and you settle the country besides with Russians, in 100 years you are going to have a Finno-Russian war and Russians will win a region after loosing 2.000.000 men.
ha. Go to any border crossing and try arguing that one.
Whatever it says on your passport - that's your nationality.
Whatever countries you want to say your ancestors are from - that's your ethnicity
I wouldn't argue about it at any border crossing, because all what border guard is interested in, is basically what country/government is responsible for you, but that doesn't make an Arab more "French" in the eyes of the French even what the Arab lives in France for many years.
I'm an American of Irish, English, Scottish, German and French descent. Is it strange that I feel absolutely no attachment to it (or fondness for it) whatsoever?
Americans constantly describe their nationality according to their ancestral background, and I find this to be not only incredibly misinformed, but also somewhat disrespectful in relation to the U.S.'s historical attempt to break from Europe. Many Americans don't realize the general disdain that Europeans have for them (at least so far as I can tell), yet continue to believe that we're all one, big, happy "western civilization." Don't even get me started on the Europhiles of our political Left...
Anyway, are there any Americans who share my thoughts on this? Or, better yet, might there be any Europeans who care to validate my thoughts on this?
I don't know but I hate the way Americans group us Europeans up as one culture it gets really annoying because we really are quite different. Like for example I was watching a show yesterday and they were talking about british things and the americans started calling the things european things. Ok, I don't have anything against mainland europeans but we are different and i'd rather not be grouped in with someone that I am very different to. Its like grouping americans up with mexicans.
Anyway, after that rant, i'm not sure. I think Americans are great with ancestry they have much more pride with their ancestry than us across the pond. But it does get annoying when they say oh I am Irish American, ok you may have Irish ancestry but you aren't Irish.
I'm English, born in England, live in England. Going back as far as my wife has been able my ancestory is all English so i am English (nice and simple).
My wife is Irish, born in the Republic of Ireland, lives in England. Going back as far as my wife has been able her ancestory is all Irish so she is Irish (also nice and simple).
Now, My children have dual nationality so they are English-Irish according to their British Passports and Irish - English according to their Irish ones. They were all born in England and as far as they're concerned they're English as it's the place of their birth and it's where they live with English/Irish ancestory and an Irish Mother.
Not quite sure what my point is or if i even have one. Just imparting my thoughts after reading the rest of the posts i suppose...
I don't know but I hate the way Americans group us Europeans up as one culture it gets really annoying because we really are quite different. Like for example I was watching a show yesterday and they were talking about british things and the americans started calling the things european things. Ok, I don't have anything against mainland europeans but we are different and i'd rather not be grouped in with someone that I am very different to. Its like grouping americans up with mexicans.
If distinct national entities in Europe would like to recognized as such, then perhaps they should reverse their decisions to join the European Union, where "one Europe" is the fundamental objective. You're the ones who are pursuing common political traditions at the slow expense of national identities; therefore, it's quite inevitable that Europe will come before, say, the United Kingdom in the minds of most outsiders.
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Originally Posted by owenc
Anyway, after that rant, i'm not sure. I think Americans are great with ancestry they have much more pride with their ancestry than us across the pond. But it does get annoying when they say oh I am Irish American, ok you may have Irish ancestry but you aren't Irish.
The "Irish-American," "German-American," nonsense is what gets me the most, too. The last Irish-American in my family has been dead for 90 years, the last German-American has been out of the picture for well over a century, and so on. I can't think of one distinctly Irish, English, Scottish, French or German cultural tradition I observe (for that matter, I have to wonder exactly how many cultural traditions Europe's populations still routinely observe).
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