Germanic language mutual intelligibility (people, England, English, Swedish)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Really? Doesn't "garden" come from Germanic "gård" ? "Very" -- "veldig".
I wasn't going to bring it up, but as you have noted his list isn't exactly accurate. There are several other inaccuracies as well: "Neat" is Germanic, not French in origin, and "parquer" is an Anglicism. Unfortunately the list goes on.
I wasn't going to bring it up, but as you have noted his list isn't exactly accurate. There are several other inaccuracies as well: "Neat" is Germanic, not French in origin, and "parquer" is an Anglicism. Unfortunately the list goes on.
And "vrai" is "true" in English, not "very" you wanted to mention as well, right?
I have to admit that although initially I looked for some similar with English verb roots while studying French, soon enough I have forgotten all about English while being "submerged" in French at a certain point in time. And I didn't think about French at all, while using English.
German on another hand... As different as it is from English - the connection pops up over and over again. I remember even yelling at my son at school that he couldn't be so dumb to not to manage to learn German, while being a native English speaker. No, I mean really...))))
Even if Swedish and Norwegian are quite similar - and selective sentences have been picked out earlier in this thread to prove it - there are enough differences to be confused. Particularly for those without connections on the other side of the border. On TV there is subtext for a reason when shows are aired from each country. Some words off the top of my head:
ENG --------------- NOR ---------------- SWE
city ---------------- by ------------------ stad
town/village -------- sted ---------------- by
laugh --------------- le ------------------ skratta
smile --------------- smile (smee-leh) ---- le
weird -------------- rar ------------------ konstig
friendly ------------ vennlig -------------- rar (in some cases)
ice cream ---------- is ------------------- glass
hot dog ------------ pølse --------------- korv
soda --------------- brus ---------------- läsk
vacation ------------ ferie ---------------- semester
mushroom ---------- sopp --------------- svamp
destiny ------------- skjebne ------------- öde
funny --------------- morsom ------------- rolig
calm --------------- rolig ----------------- lugn
butterfly ------------ sommerfugl --------- fjäril
girl ----------------- jente ---------------- flicka
boy ----------------- gutt ---------------- pojk
cottage ------------- hytte ---------------- stuga
window ------------ vindu ---------------- fönster
ability -------------- evne -----------------förmåga
common ------------ felles --------------- gemensam
neighbour ----------- nabo --------------- granne
ugly ----------------- stygg --------------- ful
evil ----------------- ondskapsfull -------- elak
naughty ------------- slem ---------------- stygg
to be lucky --------- være heldig ---------- ha tur
fog ------------------ tåke ---------------- dimma
cocky -------------- kjepphøy ------------ kaxig
pillow -------------- pute ----------------- kudde
pretty --------------- pen ------------------ snygg
wallet --------------- lommebok ---------- plånbok
pavement ----------- fortau --------------- trottoar
to blush ------------- rødme --------------- rodna
newspaper ---------- avis ------------------ tidning
boring --------------- kjedelig ------------- tråkig
garden --------------- hage --------------- trädgård
soap ---------------- såpe ----------------- tvål
week --------------- uke ------------------ vecka
to cover up ---------- skjule --------------- dölja
to wash ------------- vaske ----------------- tvätta
suit (clothing) -------- dress ---------------- kostym
(ball) gown ---------- kjole ---------------- klänning
envy ---------------- misunnelse ----------- avund
to vacuum clean ------ støvsuge ------------ dammsuga
vehicle --------------- kjøretøy -------------- fordon
Many of these Norwegian words also exists in Swedish even if not used very often.
Following words has the same meaning in similar spelling in Swedish:
Some of these however are not that much used in Swedish, but does exist in the Swedish language. Another example is vanskligt (difficult), very common in Norwegian, but seldom used in Swedish today, even though it is a proper Swedish word. It works just as fine to say "det är inte vanskligt" (it's not difficult) in Swedish as to say "det er ikke vanskeligt" in Norwegian, though most Swedes today would rather say "det är inte svårt".
In southern Sweden where I live, due to Danish influence, you may very well say lomme (Danish/Norwegian) instead of ficka (Standard Swedish) for pocket, infact most people I know says lomme, not ficka. You may also say "have" instead of trädgård for garden.
There is also many words that are different between Standard Swedish and Finland Swedish, even thought thats officially the same language.
I would say there is probably as many, if not even more different words between Standard Swedish and Finland Swedish than there is between Standard Swedish and Norwegian. Just that words that are the same in Finland Swedish are also spelled the same as in Standard Swedish.
Officially however, Norwegian is a language and Finland Swedish is a dialect. Even though a Swede from Sweden would find it way, way easier to understand what people say in Oslo (where people speak very clear eastern Norwegian) than in Närpes or Korsnäs (where people speak very archaic Finland Swedish)
Finland Swedish has by the way nothing to do with Finnish, its Indo-European, Germanic and part of the Scandinavian languages, officially its part of the Swedish language.
Finnish influences on Finland Swedish are very few.
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 10-03-2014 at 05:57 AM..
I would say there is probably as many, if not even more different words between Standard Swedish and Finland Swedish than there is between Standard Swedish and Norwegian. Just that words that are the same in Finland Swedish are also spelled the same as in Standard Swedish.
My experience with Finland-Swedish is limited to television only, but I've never had any problems understanding people like Jörn Donner or Mark Levengood. It sounds like any other Swedish dialect to my ears. They seem to have a Finnish speaking tone, but with a Swedish vocabulary.
^
This. This is a good parallel to describe a Russian speaker vs Ukrainian speaker and the sea of other dialects out there - Belorussian, and so on. One language sounds as academically-refined version of them all, with a purpose of being used for literature and science, while the others are nice to use somewhere in the village, while singing folk songs and stuff.
Yeah, it really is that way. German/Russian is more for classical stuff and Dutch/Danish/Ukrainian for casual conversations on folk festivals.
Btw, how similar are Ukrainian and standard Russian? Are they mutually intelligible?!
My experience with Finland-Swedish is limited to television only, but I've never had any problems understanding people like Jörn Donner or Mark Levengood. It sounds like any other Swedish dialect to my ears. They seem to have a Finnish speaking tone, but with a Swedish vocabulary.
Finland Swedes can of course also speak "Högsvenska" (Standard Finland Swedish), which they do on TV often, especially if its going to be watched by people in Sweden. Högsvenska is pretty easy to understand for the untrained ear, and sounds like Swedish with a Finnish speaking tone.
But when they speak to eachothers its often completely different, especially if they are from the Österbotten region.
The intelligibility between Standard Swedish and the type of Finland Swedish they speak in Österbotten, is questionable. For me, Norwegian, even Western Norwegian, is easier to understand.
Finland Swedish has by the way nothing to do with Finnish, its Indo-European, Germanic and part of the Scandinavian languages, officially its part of the Swedish language.
Finnish influences on Finland Swedish are very few.
Where did you get these? Most of them are synonyms, or very rarely used. Like 'rar', 'fiffikus' and 'slattrig'. Words like 'dabbig', 'underslev', 'huskors', 'stryklod' and 'arbus' I have never heard, and this is my native language after all. 'Velosiped' hasn't been used in the last 100 years at least.
I will post my corrections, the ones I removed were correct.
Finnish influences on Finland Swedish is not "very few", it's significant. Some of the words you posted, like donare (duunari), halare (haalari), håsa (hosua), krapula (krapula), lavoar (lavuaari), vessa (vessa), kravatt (kravatti), moj (moi) are actually Finnish words in origin. They are called "finlandismer", words that are loan words from Finnish that exist only here, and are not proper Swedish. For example in exams you are not allowed to use finlandisms as they are incorrect, though integral in everyday speech. Some are so integral that I have difficulties to even find the correct Swedish word.
More examples direct from Finnish, or Finland Swedish own "inventions":
SWE--------------- FIN-SWE-------------FIN
papperskorg----------roskis--------roskis
kul-------------------kiva---------kiva
elkontakt (had to google this)-------------stöpsel ----töpseli
hög, hop-------------kasa----------kasa
värnpliktig------------beväring (I think it's from GER bewaffnen)------asevelvollinen
fralla-----------------semla-----------sämpylä
semla----------------fastlagsbulla (directly translated from FIN)------laskiaispulla
syskonkorv-----------siskonkorv-------siskonmakkara
fika------------------mellanmål (translated directly from FIN)-------välipala
läsk------------------limonad (in slang 'limu', note the spelling, the letter u is pronounced as in Finnish)---------limonadi (slang 'limu')
lorta-------------------sotta---------sotkea
påse, kasse, säck-----------kass-------kassi
kass--------------------dålig--------------huono
bajs----------------------kakka--------------kakka
furir (obsolete, FRA)---------------------sergeant (FRA)---------kersantti (translated from FRA)
menig-------------------soldat, jägare (from GER jäger)--------------sotilas, jääkäri
Some are more or less dubious, like jacka and söka/hämta. Had many more, but forgot them in the process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusPetersson
Finland Swedes can of course also speak "Högsvenska" (Standard Finland Swedish), which they do on TV often, especially if its going to be watched by people in Sweden. Högsvenska is pretty easy to understand for the untrained ear, and sounds like Swedish with a Finnish speaking tone.
But when they speak to eachothers its often completely different, especially if they are from the Österbotten region.
The intelligibility between Standard Swedish and the type of Finland Swedish they speak in Österbotten, is questionable. For me, Norwegian, even Western Norwegian, is easier to understand.
Good point. The differences between Ostrobothnia Finland Swedish and Southern Finland Swedish are significant. Almost as big as the difference between Northern and Southern Italian dialects. Many southerners have big difficulties in understanding Ostrobothnian Swedish, and even if they are speaking högsvenska, you notice on their accent that they are from Ostrobothnia.
In practical terms, we can observe an American or Englishman on the street, and see that we tend to stick to Germanic words.
Well, here below is the script from a random episode of "Desperate Housewives". Can't be more coloquial American than this. I've highlighted the words in red that come from French/Latin.
Quote:
Karl: "It's time for my game."
Edie: "I want to watch my movie."
Karl: "Edie, this is important to me."
Edie: "Fine. I have stuff to do anyway."
Edie gets up and goes to her bedroom.
"You see, when it came to men, Edie had a battle plan all her own."
Edie comes downstairs and clears her throat. Karl turns and sees Edie wearing a see through nightie. She has silk scarves in each hand.
Edie: "You got five minutes for Edie?"
Karl jumps up to follow her.
Later, in Edie's bedroom, Karl is nearly naked, lying on the bed. His hands are tied to the bedposts.
Karl: "Wow, that's some knot you tied."
Edie: "Yeah? Well, it’s no fun if it's not tight. You know what would be hot? Whipped cream."
See, even the most colloquial English is peppered with French/Latin words. In fact it's impossible to speak the most elementary English without using French words.
Really? Doesn't "garden" come from Germanic "gård" ? "Very" -- "veldig".
No. "Garden" comes from the Normandy pronunciation of French "jardin". In the dialects of northern Normandy, the French "j" becomes "g". For example the (Parisian) French word "jalon" (meaning "milestone", a stick to measure something) was pronounced "galon" in northern Normandy, and gave "gallon" in English.
"Jardin" itself comes from Medieval Latin "hortus gardinus" which means "enclosed (gardinus) garden (hortus)". Italian "giardino", Spanish "jardÃn", and English "garden" all come from French jardin/gardin. The original Latin word for garden, "hortus", has no descendant in French, but it's still commonly used in Spanish (huerta) and Catalan/Valencian (horta), albeit with a different meaning, see for example L'Horta de València.
As for Germanic "gardaz" (Swedish and Danish "gård"), it gave "yard" (as in "courtyard") in English, not "garden".
As for Norwegian "veldig", it comes from Old Norse "vald" which means "power, authority, force, violence", and is totally unrelated to English "very".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No, I mean really...)))) 
'Velosiped' hasn't been used in the last 100 years at least. 
