Germanic language mutual intelligibility (kids, France, Italy, index)
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"Det var en fugtig, grå sommerdag i slutningen af juni"
In German every word is litterally replacable, except for 'slutningen':
"Es war ein feuchter, grauer Sommertag Ende Juni."
In Dutch, if you would do the same, translate this literally word for word, you would get:
"Het was een vochtige, grauwe zomerdag eind juni."
Every Dutchman is able to understand what this means. And then you only have to make tiny adjustments in your head to get the best translation.
You can also see that German is closer to Scandinavian than Dutch and Dutch already makes a transition to English. Notice the 'r' becomes an 's' in war/was. And notice 't' becomes 'd' in tag/dag.
What I understand of written Germanic languages based on similarity to my native language Swedish:
1. Norwegian (understand fully)
2. Danish (understand fully)
3. Faroese (understand somewhat, maybe 50% or so)
4. German (understand some sentences, often easy to guess)
5. Dutch (understand some sentences, often easy to guess)
6. Icelandic (understand almost nothing)
Strangely, one Scandinavian language (Icelandic) is actually the least understandable one. Thats cause German has influenced the mainland Scandinavian languages so much through the years, while Icelandic has due to the remote location virtually not had any foreign influence for centuries.
Where English would stand (if I hadn't learnt it) I dont know, but probably somewhere along German and Dutch.
I cannot read Icelandic, of course some words can be recognized because they are universal in every Germanic language but the context is too difficult. Same with Faroese.
For me, as native Dutch speaker (except English):
1. German (understand fully written and spoken)
2. Norwegian (understand almost fully written and if not, guessing works too. Spoken is more difficult)
3. Swedish (same)
4. Danish (only written)
Icelandic and Faroese not.
Dutch and German are very closely related but, contrary to popular belief in some parts of the world, NOT mutually intelligible. Dutch and Afrikaans are mutually intelligible.
"Det var en fugtig, grå sommerdag i slutningen af juni"
"It was a wet, gray summerday in the end of June."
In Dutch: 'Het was een natte, grijze zomerdag eind juni.'
The differences between Danish/Dutch:
Fugtig: Dutch also has the word 'Vochtig" which also means "nat", but in this context 'nat' is better as 'vochtig'. 'Nat becomes 'natte' because of Dutch grammar. Compare German word "Feucht"
Grå: Dutch also has the word 'Grauw' which is basically the same as 'Grå'. 'Grauw' and 'Grijs/grijze' are the same in this context. Compare German "Grau". English 'Gray' or "Grey"
Slutningen: Dutch also has the word 'slot' which also means 'eind' but in this context 'eind' is better. German "Schluss"
If you came up to me and said that in Dutch I would know what you are saying 100%.
I have seen videos and such in Dutch and I can understand better than any another language (without studying). I wouldn't call it mutually intelligible, but it amazing how much a native English speaker can decipher. And this is including the fact that I rarely encounter Dutch or see it. I had a Dutch girlfriend some time ago, but she very rarely spoke Dutch around me, only on the phone. In contrast, when I had never studied French and Spanish I understood nothing whatsoever other than the obvious borrowed words like "vocabulaire" and "intelligent", but with Dutch and also German I can get the gist of what people are saying to an astonishing degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erka
That's why written Scandinavian is easy to follow for Dutch and German people. Most words have some kind of common origin. For English people it is more difficult because English doesn't have that many old-Germanic words anymore. In this example, English has no literally equivalents for "fugtig" and 'Slutningen"
Yes exactly. That is what throws me off are those old Germanic words.
If you came up to me and said that in Dutch I would know what you are saying 100%.
I have seen videos and such in Dutch and I can understand better than any another language (without studying). I wouldn't call it mutually intelligible, but it amazing how much a native English speaker can decipher. And this is including the fact that I rarely encounter Dutch or see it. I had a Dutch girlfriend some time ago, but she very rarely spoke Dutch around me, only on the phone. In contrast, when I had never studied French and Spanish I understood nothing whatsoever other than the obvious borrowed words like "vocabulaire" and "intelligent", but with Dutch and also German I can get the gist of what people are saying to an astonishing degree.
Try to read the Frisian Wikipedia. Frisian is the language closest to English. Then comes Dutch. Dutch is something like a mix of English and German. We also have some French vocabulaire thrown in here and there. I think you would have most trouble with syntax. The word order is really different and changes a lot, just like in German.
I cannot read Icelandic, of course some words can be recognized because they are universal in every Germanic language but the context is too difficult. Same with Faroese.
For me, as native Dutch speaker (except English):
1. German (understand fully written and spoken)
2. Norwegian (understand almost fully written and if not, guessing works too. Spoken is more difficult)
3. Swedish (same)
4. Danish (only written)
Icelandic and Faroese not.
Dutch and German are very closely related but, contrary to popular belief in some parts of the world, NOT mutually intelligible. Dutch and Afrikaans are mutually intelligible.
I can read some Faroese because unlike Iceland, the Faroe Islands had many Danish influences due to very strict enforcement of Danish langauge policies for hundreds of years. People were not even allowed to speak Faroese under the Danish rule. So in other words, the Faroese language is much more German-influenced than Icelandic.
Only since 1948, which was the year when the Faroe Islands became self-ruling, Faroese has been an official language. It is like a mix of Mainland Scandinavian and Icelandic. So while Icelandic is almost impossible for me to understand, I can as a Swedish speaker understand Faroese somewhat, but only when its written. I can read an article in a Faroese newspaper and get a good grasp of the context and what its about, which I am not able to do with Icelandic articles.
"In den Jahren 1713 bis 1714 wurde Stockholm von der Pest heimgesucht. Nach dem Ende des Großen Nordischen Krieges und der damit verbundenen Gebietsverluste im Jahre 1721 stagnierte die Entwicklung der Stadt.
Die Bevölkerung wuchs kaum mehr und die wirtschaftliche Erholung ging nur sehr langsam vor sich.
Stockholm behielt aber seine Rolle als politisches Zentrum des Landes und entwickelte sich unter Gustav III. auch zum kulturellen Zentrum.
Das Stockholmer Schloss und die Königliche Oper sind architektonischer Ausdruck dieser Epoche, in die auch die Gründung der Svenska Akademien zur Förderung der schwedischen Sprache und Literatur fällt."
Swedish:
"Under åren 1713 till 1714 så hemsöktes Stockholm av pesten. Vid slutet av det Stora Nordiska Kriget och förlusten av områden år 1721 stagnerade utvecklingen av staden.
Befolkningen växte knappt längre och den ekonomiska återvändningen var mycket långsam.
Men Stockholm behöll sin roll som den politiska mitten av landet och utvecklade under Gustav III även kulturella centrum.
Stockholms Slott och Kungliga Operan är arkitektoniskt uttryck för denna epok, där också Svenska Akademin grundades för att främja det svenska språket och litteraturen."
As you can see if you look closely at each word, these are very similar languages, allthough still not intelligible. German is much more similar to Scandinavian than it is to English, and if you speak German its probably pretty easy to guess what it says in Swedish/Norwegian/Danish, as for me (a Swedish speaker) its pretty easy to guess what it says when something is written in German.
Its the different grammar and the order of the words in many (but not all) German sentences that makes it a bit of a puzzle for us Scandinavians.
The most original and natural Germanic language though is by far Icelandic, which is alot more similar to Old English, Old Norse and Old German than it is to any modern language, and as result not even remotely understood by anyone except the Icelanders.
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 09-26-2014 at 09:48 PM..
"In den Jahren 1713 bis 1714 wurde Stockholm von der Pest heimgesucht. Nach dem Ende des Großen Nordischen Krieges und der damit verbundenen Gebietsverluste im Jahre 1721 stagnierte die Entwicklung der Stadt.
Die Bevölkerung wuchs kaum mehr und die wirtschaftliche Erholung ging nur sehr langsam vor sich.
Stockholm behielt aber seine Rolle als politisches Zentrum des Landes und entwickelte sich unter Gustav III. auch zum kulturellen Zentrum.
Das Stockholmer Schloss und die Königliche Oper sind architektonischer Ausdruck dieser Epoche, in die auch die Gründung der Svenska Akademien zur Förderung der schwedischen Sprache und Literatur fällt."
Swedish:
"Under åren 1713 till 1714 så hemsöktes Stockholm av pesten. Vid slutet av det Stora Nordiska Kriget och förlusten av områden 1721 stagnerade utveckligen av staden.
Befolkningen växte knappt längre och den ekonomiska återvändningen var mycket långsam.
Men Stockholm behöll sin roll som den politiska mitten av landet och utvecklades under Gustav III även kulturella centrum.
Stockholms slott och Kungliga Operan är arketektoniskt uttryck för denna epok, där också Svenska Akademin grundades för att främja det svenska språket och litteraturen."
Very similar languages, allthough still not intelligible. German is much more similar to Scandinavian than it is to English.
I will attempt to translate.Remember I have little no no exposure to other Germanic languages, so I am shooting in the dark so to speak. Go easy on me!
English (?):
From the years 1713 to 1714 Stockholm had a plague (pest?). Near the end of the great Nordic wars. The city stagnated until 1721.
Then the people (returned?) and the economy slowly (recovered?)
Stockholm held it's role as the center of politics and culture under Gustav III.
Stockholm's place (slot?) the and Kingly palace (oper?) are architectural works from this epoch, and the Swedish Academy furthered the Swedish language (speech) and literature.
"In den Jahren 1713 bis 1714 wurde Stockholm von der Pest heimgesucht. Nach dem Ende des Großen Nordischen Krieges und der damit verbundenen Gebietsverluste im Jahre 1721 stagnierte die Entwicklung der Stadt.
Die Bevölkerung wuchs kaum mehr und die wirtschaftliche Erholung ging nur sehr langsam vor sich.
Stockholm behielt aber seine Rolle als politisches Zentrum des Landes und entwickelte sich unter Gustav III. auch zum kulturellen Zentrum.
Das Stockholmer Schloss und die Königliche Oper sind architektonischer Ausdruck dieser Epoche, in die auch die Gründung der Svenska Akademien zur Förderung der schwedischen Sprache und Literatur fällt."
Dutch:
"In de jaren 1713 en 1714 werd Stockholm door de pest getroffen. Na het einde van de Grote Noordse Oorlog en de daarmee verbonden gebiedsverliezen in het jaar 1721 stagneerde de ontwikkeling van de stad.
De bevolking groeide amper meer en het economisch herstel ging maar erg langzaam.
Stockholm behield echter zijn rol als politiek centrum van het land en ontwikkelde zich onder Gustav III ook tot cultureel centrum.
Het Slot van Stockholm en de Koninklijke Opera zijn architektonische uitingen van deze periode, waarin ook de stichting van de Zweedse Academie voor de promotie van de Zweedse taal en literatuur valt."
----
As you can see, lots of similarities but not 1:1.
Heimsuchen has no similar Dutch word. Had to guess this one.
Krieg = Oorlog, but Dutch also has "Krijg" f.ex. in "Krijgsheer" which means "Warlord"
wuchs = groeide, but Dutch also has "wassen" (German: wachsen) which is archaic Dutch but still in use for rising water levels. As you can see we use 'groeide', English 'grew'
Gründung has no similar Dutch word but because Gründung is based on 'Grund', Dutch 'grond' or English 'ground' it is easily guessed.
Förderung has no silimar Dutch word. We use the latin 'promotie', English 'promotion'
----
As you can see, lots of similarities but not 1:1.
Heimsuchen has no similar Dutch word. Had to guess this one.
Krieg = Oorlog, but Dutch also has "Krijg" f.ex. in "Krijgsheer" which means "Warlord"
wuchs = groeide, but Dutch also has "wassen" (German: wachsen) which is archaic Dutch but still in use for rising water levels. As you can see we use 'groeide', English 'grew'
Gründung has no similar Dutch word but because Gründung is based on 'Grund', Dutch 'grond' or English 'ground' it is easily guessed.
Förderung has no silimar Dutch word. We use the latin 'promotie', English 'promotion'
And in Swedish, there is no equalivalents for:
Große = stor, stora
Damit = så att
Gebiet = område, territorium
Wirtschaft = ekonomi
Erholung = återvändning
Sehr = mycket
Förderung = främjande
While war is called "krig" in Swedish much like in German, the name for warship in Swedish is örlogsfartyg, warship captain is örlogskapten, and military ensign is örlogsflagga. Same in Norwegian, warship is orlogsfartøy, warship captain is orlogskaptein and military ensign is orlogsflagg.
When translated to Norwegian, all words in the text are the same with different spelling or extremely close equivalents, and also notice that its almost the exact same order of words as in Swedish too. This is Norwegian:
"I årene 1713 till 1714 ble Stockholm hjemsøkt av pesten. Ved slutten av det Store Nordiske Krig og tap av områder år 1721 stagnerte utviklingen av byen.
Befolkningen vokste knapt lenger og den økonomiske gjenvinningen var meget langsom.
Men Stockholm beholdt sin rolle som det politiske sentrum av landet og utviklet under Gustav III. også det kulturelle sentrum.
Stockholms Slott og den Kongelige Opera er arkitektonisk uttrykk for denne epoken, der også Svenska Akademiet ble grunnlagt for å fremme det svenske språket og litteratur"
Compared to Swedish:
"Under åren 1713 till 1714 så hemsöktes Stockholm av pesten. Vid slutet av det Stora Nordiska Kriget och förlusten av områden år 1721 stagnerade utvecklingen av staden.
Befolkningen växte knappt längre och den ekonomiska återvändningen var mycket långsam.
Men Stockholm behöll sin roll som den politiska mitten av landet och utvecklade under Gustav III också kulturella centrum.
Stockholms Slott och Kungliga Operan är arkitektoniskt uttryck för denna epok, där också Svenska Akademin grundades för att främja det svenska språket och litteraturen."
The one different word "byen" is very easily replaceable. "By" means "village" in Swedish, and "byn" means "the village" in Swedish. However in Norwegian, "by" means means "city", and "byen" means "the city".
In Swedish, city is "stad", like in German/Dutch.
However, stad can also mean city in some contexts in Norwegian, as in hovedstad (capital city).
Förlust (taken from German "verlust"), which means loss in Swedish, does not have any Norwegian equivalent, so the Norwegian word for loss is "tap". However, "tappa" means drop in Swedish, so thats extremely easy to guess as well.
Last edited by Helsingborgaren; 09-27-2014 at 06:36 AM..
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