Russia. All that concerns Russia.Аnswers questions citizen of Russia. (best, life)

[erasure]

Originally Posted by dunno what to put here

That seems like a cultural failing to me, and is not an excuse for violently attacking people. That is never acceptable.

Dunno, I personally like this "childish part" of British culture, but to say that the absence of it in Russian culture is a "cultural failing" wouldn't be correct, because Russian culture simply operates on different premises. I've said it before and I'll say it again - when god created Russians, he was already old and tired man. That's why Russians have so much philosophical literature, their "learned men" are all bearded grand-fathers (judging by the portraits on the wall,) and the mentioned above "playful part" is not a part of the scene any longer.

A few Russian hooligans have been interviewed, and it's quite the eye-opener. They look at how the English hooligans behaved in the 1980s and emulated them to a certain extent. For them it's all about who's the strongest or most macho - and I get the impression that 'machoness' runs quite deep in Russia.

It does. Russians are definitely the "Northerners" with the "Southern twist." And if I could pinpoint it, it's a "warrior culture" overall. You can see it in boys from the young age - they are quick to jump, they are quick to get organized, and they are quick to use fists.

They all say the same thing - Russian hooligans went there specifically to fight, and have trained beforehand to fight. They take pride in being violent.

This particular group of people - yes, they come across as the ones, that take pride in violence.

[dunno what to put here]

It's not so much that a lack of playfulness is a cultural failing - but to an outsider, violence is glorified in Russia, it is actively promoted in certain sectors and from an early age Russian males have a tendency to act violent and settle all conflict with brute force. Like I said, if rival groups want to organise fights, fine - knock each other senseless. I don't really care. I've seen videos online of youth groups fighting, and it was entirely planned - and didn't result in severe head injuries, brain damage or broken ribs.

What I don't find acceptable, is violently attacking people who had no desire to fight, and the amount of force used, was undeniably excessive. A man is in a coma - a man who did nothing wrong but was hit in the head by a metal bar. A man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This kind of thing should not be acceptable in any culture. What if he dies? Will these hooligans care, or will they consider it a victory? Do Russian men not care if people die? Can they kill others and feel nothing?

I just find it quite depressing and a little scary, how one can have so little consideration for fellow humans that they see nothing wrong with beating someone so viciously they are put into a coma, or kick the head of unconscious people like it's a football. Russian culture might be very 'serious' but this predisposition to extremely violent behaviour means football fans of any country are not safe. Most football fans are just drunk and flabby, not fighting machines. The Russian hooligans are not concerned about football, and don't care if Russia are disqualified - they will continue to fight until they are expelled from the country. Russians will eventually find themselves banned from Europe like the English were in the 1980s if they continue.

[erasure]

Originally Posted by dunno what to put here

It's not so much that a lack of playfulness is a cultural failing - but to an outsider, violence is glorified in Russia, it is actively promoted in certain sectors and from an early age Russian males have a tendency to act violent and settle all conflict with brute force.

Yes it is, but that's only a PART of the picture that outsiders can see. INSIDE Russia the picture is more complicated than that of course.

Okay, so that's Russian culture - but I don't view it as a good thing. Most of the people attacked on Saturday were not looking for a fight, so it's unacceptable. If they want to fight each other then like I said, no problem, but don't attack random fans who only went to watch football.

I agree with you, BUT;
# 1 - they emulated the British fans to begin with, ( without having an understanding of the culture.)
# 2 once they emulated British fans, they arrived ready for a fight.
# 3. Since they were not too familiar with the "scene" and "who is who," they perceived those who "challenged them" as a "real thing," without knowing that "real people" were not even allowed to travel.

( Just analyzing here everything that went wrong.)

[erasure]

Originally Posted by dunno what to put here

It's not so much that a lack of playfulness is a cultural failing - but to an outsider, violence is glorified in Russia, it is actively promoted in certain sectors and from an early age Russian males have a tendency to act violent and settle all conflict with brute force. Like I said, if rival groups want to organise fights, fine - knock each other senseless. I don't really care. I've seen videos online of youth groups fighting, and it was entirely planned - and didn't result in severe head injuries, brain damage or broken ribs.

What I don't find acceptable, is violently attacking people who had no desire to fight, and the amount of force used, was undeniably excessive. A man is in a coma - a man who did nothing wrong but was hit in the head by a metal bar. A man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. This kind of thing should not be acceptable in any culture. What if he dies? Will these hooligans care, or will they consider it a victory? Do Russian men not care if people die? Can they kill others and feel nothing?

I just find it quite depressing and a little scary, how one can have so little consideration for fellow humans that they see nothing wrong with beating someone so viciously they are put into a coma, or kick the head of unconscious people like it's a football. Russian culture might be very 'serious' but this predisposition to extremely violent behaviour means football fans of any country are not safe. Most football fans are just drunk and flabby, not fighting machines. The Russian hooligans are not concerned about football, and don't care if Russia are disqualified - they will continue to fight until they are expelled from the country. Russians will eventually find themselves banned from Europe like the English were in the 1980s if they continue.

You mean the "fans?"
I see nothing bad about it.
There will be less risk involved of fatal injuries, if you ask me.

[Maksim_Frolov]

Originally Posted by erasure

"But then someone took a bat to my arm" means someone HIT him with a bat in his arm))

Hmm. Thank you, it's interesting. I understood it, that he took the bat and began to fight. Thank's.

[Maksim_Frolov]

Originally Posted by erasure

# 3. Since they were not too familiar with the "scene" and "who is who," they perceived those who "challenged them" as a "real thing," without knowing that "real people" were not even allowed to travel

Do you think that among the several thousand British fans were not fighters? They were there. There were provocateurs, were fighters, were usual drunken fans. Youtube has dozens video of riot that suit English hooligans in recent years. And this is not the 1980s.

And I think that many Russian fans are also barred from traveling to Europe, if they were involved in the riots.

[Brave New World]

Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov

Do you think that among the several thousand British fans were not fighters? They were there. There were provocateurs, were fighters, were usual drunken fans. Youtube has dozens video of riot that suit English hooligans in recent years. And this is not the 1980s.

And I think that many Russian fans are also barred from traveling to Europe, if they were involved in the riots.

[easthome]

Originally Posted by erasure

No?
13 year olds then, judging by the "performance" exhibited above?

I am not the one making childish statements like 'don't lay hands on the Russian bear', its pathetic, your posts claiming its Russian culture is pathetic, there is no excuse to randomly murder innocent people and they are not 'tough' when 5 or 6 people jump on somebody with iron bars, in fact its cowardly, and if this is just 'Russian culture' then you can stick it where the sun doesn't shine because the rest of the world have 'grown up' a bit. A couple of hundred Russian idiots are basically ruining the competition for millions of other Europeans because they think they're 'tough' BUT the WORST thing of all is ordinary Russians refusing to condone what they're doing PARTICULARLY Russian Politicians that are just as childish as the hooligans themselves. If Russians are incapable of behaving in a civilised manner they should not be invited to take part in anything until they learn to behave, saying 'its cultural' is no excuse.

[Maksim_Frolov]

Originally Posted by easthome

there is no excuse to randomly murder innocent people

Of course, murder is the mistake. Nobody does not support murder. But are you sure that they are innocent? Your fans have behaved very badly. They insulted, provoked, beat, break and destroy. Why do not you blame them? Your redneck must stay on the island, they has no place in Europe.

[easthome]

Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov

Of course, murder is the mistake. Nobody does not support murder. But are you sure that they are innocent? Your fans have behaved very badly. They insulted, provoked, beat, break and destroy. Why do not you blame them? Your redneck must stay on the island, they has no place in Europe.

I think the guy in the wheelchair was fairly innocent don't you? Or did he 'deserve' to be beaten senseless by several people? Your attitude and the attitude of your politicians stinks, no wonder your country is a racist, homophobic hellhole, Russians are roaming the streets in gangs for the sole purpose of attacking ANYBODY that just so happens to be English and you think its OK!? I REPEAT watching football in England is VASTLY different to watching football in Russia, in one country you can sit with women, children, gay men and people of any nation or colour, in the other if you are not white you are in trouble, in one country there are no fences designed to stop you attacking people, in the other you are caged while you watch, in one country there are no police with straining dogs on leads, in the other there is riot police, guess which is which! And STILL you try and blame the English!! Check the news, Russia is being threatened with expulsion from the competition, Russia has been fined for the behaviour of its fans, until you or your Politicians pull your head out of the sand Russia will continue to have these problems and all the while idiots who say things like 'don't mess with the Russian bear' like a 12 year old (particularly if they are supposed to be bloody officials!!!) I say ban Russia from all international competition, their drug induced athletes and their fans certainly won't be missed.