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On the other hand, I have also noticed that for very rich countries they seem to have fairly high levels of outmigration, especially to places like the U.S. and the U.K. This may be related to high educational and skill levels and the fact that they are quite small and therefore offer limited opportunities for go-getters (no matter how high the quality of life is).
Maybe weather. Those QOL surveys fail to take into account the fact that most humans dont want to live in the dark while freezing. Climate directly affects how you feel, act, and think. The climate in Scandinavia is about as bad as it gets while still being inhabitable for significant populations.
Maybe weather. Those QOL surveys fail to take into account the fact that most humans dont want to live in the dark while freezing. Climate directly affects how you feel, act, and think. The climate in Scandinavia is about as bad as it gets while still being inhabitable for significant populations.
Care to elaborate? And you know every location on earth has exactly the same amount of daylight during the year, right?
Questioned by whom? And no need to exaggerate the climate either. A Vancouver, Brussels, Berlin or Paris winter is hardly anything to be cheery about.
I agree. Seattle is very Scandinavian, weather-wise, except it gets less snow. Which is one reason I don't live there anymore.
Did you miss the part of my earlier post where I was comparing Scandinavia to Alaska? That's a much more fair comparison, and I think in most respects, Scandinavia comes out ahead.
Did you miss the part of my earlier post where I was comparing Scandinavia to Alaska? That's a much more fair comparison, and I think in most respects, Scandinavia comes out ahead.
No I did not. I don't think Scandinavia can be compared to Alaska, Anchorage is colder in every single month than any of the Nordic capitals, and Fairbanks has an average low in January which is colder than a Nordic capital may record during the whole winter. The most similar climates can be found in British Columbia and in upper Michigan.
Yes, I would like that the summers would be longer, but overall I find the climate to be quite acceptable. No oppressive heat and very rarely oppressive cold, nice long sunny days in summer, moderate rainfall, no natural disasters like floods, terrible blizzards, tornadoes, tsunamis and so on. One poisonous snake existing, no tarantulas or anacondas, malaria, bed bugs, and the most dangerous animal is the bee.
The QoL is very high in the Nordic countries, but providing I have enough money, I'd rather live in London or Paris than Stockholm or Copenhagen, and the choice of interesting, decently-sized cities beyond the capitals is pretty limited.
Care to elaborate? And you know every location on earth has exactly the same amount of daylight during the year, right?
The lack of sunshine in places like Oslo during the winter is something that most humans will never experience, nor want to experience, in their lifetimes. For example, Oslo gets less than 1700 hours of sunshine a year, while where I am (not a tropical place by any stretch of the imagination) gets almost 1,000 more. Even Vancouver, a place notorious for its poor weather, is sunnier. Sunlight is directly linked to the maintenance of mental health, and this is why those who suffer from SAD in Seattle may be treated with light therapy.
To make matters worse, there is virtually no summertime. Yes there is a season called summer, but a high of 70 degrees is hardly summer weather. After a long, cold, dark winter, 70 degrees is honestly quite pathetic. This is what sets Scandinavia apart from Montreal, or Minneapolis, or Detroit, or Toronto. These places can expect to have some semblance of summertime with temperatures 10 degrees warmer.
All this makes for an unforgiving climate. This is why countries like Sweden are so sparsely populated despite being among the largest in Europe. One can imagine that if Sweden had the climate of Greece, it would be rivaling Germany, France, and the UK. In the American context, the best comparison to Scandinavia's climate is Alaska. Despite the best efforts of the Alaskan government, most citizens woud never live there simply due to the climate.
Ok, darkness. Let's not compare to Texas or any other subtropical latitude, but La Ville-Lumière. You don't see much complaining about the darkness in Paris, except for Parisians.
1 October, the day is 12 minutes longer in Paris than Oslo
1 November, 1 hour 10 minutes longer in Paris
1 December, 2 hours 5 minutes longer in Paris
1 January, 2 hours 15 minutes longer in Paris
1 February, 1 hour 27 minutes longer in Paris
1 March, 32 minutes longer in Paris
1 June, 2 hours 19 minutes longer in Oslo
1 July, 2 hours 35 minutes longer in Oslo
1 August, 1 hour 44 minutes longer in Oslo
I would gladly challenge anyone who thinks 2 hours of less daylight for 2 months and a week is a dealbraker or something that drives people mentally insane. I just don't see that happening.
If the sun rises at 8:30 in Paris and 9:00 in Oslo, while sets at 16:55 and 15:15 in December, I don't see how happy it makes the Parisians. In both cities it's dark when you go to work and dark when you return home from work.
But I'm not that surprised. It wasn't long ago when a poster on C-D thought Helsinki gets a polar night.
C'mon Ariete. You sound like one of those Canadian weather apologists who try to convince you that the weather in Vancouver isn't that bad. They too compare the city's weather to Paris.
The lack of sunshine in places like Oslo during the winter is something that most humans will never experience in their lifetimes. For example, Oslo gets less than 1700 hours of sunshine a year, while where I am (not a tropical place by any stretch of the imagination) gets almost 1,000 more. Even Vancouver, a place notorious for its poor weather, is sunnier. Sunlight is directly linked to the maintenance of mental health, and this is why those who suffer from SAD in Seattle may be treated with light therapy.
To make matters worse, there is virtually no summertime. Yes there is a season called summer, but a high of 70 degrees is hardly summer weather. After a long, cold, dark winter, 70 degrees is honestly quite pathetic. This is what sets Scandinavia apart from Montreal, or Minneapolis, or Detroit, or Toronto. These places can expect to have some semblance of summertime with temperatures 10 degrees warmer.
All this makes for an unforgiving climate. This is why countries like Sweden are so sparsely populated despite being among the largest in Europe. One can imagine that if Sweden had the climate of Greece, it would be rivaling Germany, France, and the UK.
Well, actually most Europeans not in the Mediterranean see as sunless winters in terms of % of daylight. Sunshine hours is not a debate here, but I can tell you the US sunshine recordings are quite generous, as they are set on 96W/m2 instead of the 120W/m2.
And as much as there's people, as many weather preferences are there. My dad for example don't like heat at all, and definitely prefers a 70F day instead of a 90F day. And it's not 70F every day in summer here either. We've already seen a bunch of 80's F this spring and there's more to come. I don't require much warmer than that. 77-85F is enough for me.
A Phoenix summer or Seattle winter would be hell, and definitely don't see them as an improvement to our climate. I can tell you 40F and constant rain is much tougher than 30F and a snowy landscape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
C'mon Ariete. You sound like one of those Canadian weather apologists who try to convince you that the weather in Vancouver isn't that bad. They too compare the city's weather to Paris.
Well, there could be a lot of improvement, but you said that Scandinavia has "the worst climate thinkable", when it's simply not true. I'm quite interested in weather, and can name a 100 locations top of my head that have a worse climate. And in the end of the day, I rather take this sub-par climate compared to a miserable hellhole like Bodymore with a better climate. As the QOL was what we were talking about.
I'm not an apologist, I'm just trying to set the facts straight. The stereotype goes that Scandinavia sees no sunlight, it's pitch dark and freezing like hell, but it isn't. And it's not that we all suffer from SAD either. Or am I not allowed to defend my climate?
The lack of sunshine in places like Oslo during the winter is something that most humans will never experience, nor want to experience, in their lifetimes. For example, Oslo gets less than 1700 hours of sunshine a year, while where I am (not a tropical place by any stretch of the imagination) gets almost 1,000 more. Even Vancouver, a place notorious for its poor weather, is sunnier. Sunlight is directly linked to the maintenance of mental health, and this is why those who suffer from SAD in Seattle may be treated with light therapy.
To make matters worse, there is virtually no summertime. Yes there is a season called summer, but a high of 70 degrees is hardly summer weather. After a long, cold, dark winter, 70 degrees is honestly quite pathetic. This is what sets Scandinavia apart from Montreal, or Minneapolis, or Detroit, or Toronto. These places can expect to have some semblance of summertime with temperatures 10 degrees warmer.
All this makes for an unforgiving climate. This is why countries like Sweden are so sparsely populated despite being among the largest in Europe. One can imagine that if Sweden had the climate of Greece, it would be rivaling Germany, France, and the UK. In the American context, the best comparison to Scandinavia's climate is Alaska. Despite the best efforts of the Alaskan government, most citizens woud never live there simply due to the climate.
People in Scandinavia are used to their summer temperatures so 70F is perfectly summer-like to them, and indeed to us in the UK as well. Stockholm and Helsinki are very sunny in the summer - are you telling me a completely clear, 70F day would not resemble summer to you - with greenery everywhere? And besides, you acclimatise - if someone from, say, Helsinki spent a month in Winnipeg, they would arrive home and think their winters are quite mild by comparison, because they will have gotten used to the bitterly cold weather in Winterpeg, and likewise, if you spend an entire July in Helsinki, you will acclimatise to the weather, and August in Baltimore will seem unbearably hot and humid, and you will probably wonder what the hell you were thinking considering 70F not summer-like, and 32C or some stupid furnace temperature pleasant.
Summer in Maryland isn't even really summer anyway - it's more like an inferno - a humid inferno.
PS..
People enjoying a beach in Helsinki.. brr, it look so cold!
Last edited by dunno what to put here; 06-03-2014 at 04:14 PM..
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I just don't see that happening.
