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....So Americans who make more money than the Swedish and also have a much lower cost of living pay over $10,000 for university. According to the OECD Americans have about 40k of disposable income and Swedes have about 28k. Wow, so for the four years of university the American (if he even goes to college) breaks even with the Swede. And then for the other 76 years of their life they pay nothing. Meanwhile the European is gouged everyday to pay for someone else's college...even if they don't go to college themselves. What a racket.
Either way, you seem to think that Americans have one option for college and that is to pay 40,000 a year when in reality there are boundless options when it comes to college and you can pay for a really cheap one or a really expensive one. The vast majority of college educated Americans aren't going to pay 40,000 a year on college. That would mean people on student loans would have $160,000 in debt which AFAIK is unheard of. No offense, but you once again have no clue what you're talking about.
Unless you are happy with a poor quality community college, average tuition fees are $29,056 for private institutions and may be as high as $47,246 per year. link. So, $40k is not too far off. You apparently didn't study at a university.
So 8k a year, and you graduate in four or five years? So if you have two kids, it's a total of 64k-80k. That's a lot of money compared with the $0 that you pay in Sweden.
In Sweden you get $153 every month in child benefit for every kid you have until they are 16, so $58,700 FREE MONEY combined.
All this must be included (and more), because that's some of the reasons why the income is lower than in the US!
Americans have much more disposable income, much more than 8k a year over Swedes.
So statistically the "average" American with one kid would break even with the Swede during college years, and would quickly catch up to them and surpass them within a few years if they have to pay for multiple kids. I know this is very difficult to accept, but it is basic math. I also don't except to be able to convince you otherwise. There are Scandinavians here in my area and let's be honest, they shouldn't have a reason to leave the way Mexicans do but still they do it to get away from things like this. It is always interesting though how some of you like to gloat about paying your money to the government and then when you get a small percentage of it back and you call it "free". Sounds like a sucker's racket.
Unless you are happy with a poor quality community college, average tuition fees are $29,056 for private institutions and may be as high as $47,246 per year. link. So, $40k is not too far off. You apparently didn't study at a university.
Drro, the vast majority of people don't go to a private university. The fact that you don't understand this illustrates a profound misunderstanding on your part. Most people go to an in state college and pay in state tuition. I don't know how this is complicated. It's the same way most people don't buy a Porsche, but you are making it sound like a Porsche is standard.
Your link only shows prices for community colleges and private institutions. Seriously? 80 percent of college students, out of the already 1/3 of Americans who get a bachelors degree, don't go to private universities. You use private universities like it is a standard when it is exceptional.
Sweden's very homogenous society has opted voluntarily to pay a much higher tax rate in exchange for a more "equal" lifestyle in terms of income, medical care, and educational options. The US's much more diverse society has opted voluntarily to pay lower taxes and to allow more personal options -and more personal responsibility - for things such as income, medical care, and education.
I think it's laughable when people assume that the system that works in the Nordic countries (whose COMBINED population is not much larger than the NYC metro area's population) for a population which is about 90 percent (or more) ethnic Scandinavian, whose weather patterns, history, religion, etc is not NEARLY as diversified as the US or for that matter most of the EU - this same system should be able to be transplanted to the US and run just like clockwork.
Can we learn from the Scandinavian countries? I am sure we can. They can also learn from us. And guess what - it's also OK if they run things differently, and vice versa.
There are good universities at many prices in the USA.
For California residents, Berkeley is around $12K per year. Community Colleges in California are excellent and are probably the best deal in education in the USA. They are around $20 per credit and if you get good grades you can transfer into the UC system. My ex did her education this way and finished up with a degree from UCLA and spent maybe $8000 total on higher ed after scholarships and grants.
Georgia Tech is ranked in the top 5 for engineering and there is a program for Georgia residents with good high school grades where they only pay about $1800 per year.
The Ivy League, Stanford and Cal Tech are essentially free for anyone who gets in and their family makes less than $80K per year.
Where the USA fails the most in higher education is high priced private schools that target dumb kids who shouldn't be going to college in the first place.
A bigger problem in the USA is secondary education. Better public schools are tied to more expensive neighborhoods, whereas in most western countries, and also places like Japan, Singapore, Korea and China, secondary education quality is more evenly distributed.
....So Americans who make more money than the Swedish and also have a much lower cost of living pay over $10,000 for university. According to the OECD Americans have about 40k of disposable income and Swedes have about 28k. Wow, so for the four years of university the American (if he even goes to college) breaks even with the Swede. And then for the other 76 years of their life they pay nothing. Meanwhile the European is gouged everyday to pay for someone else's college...even if they don't go to college themselves. What a racket.
Quoting the pdf:
"We have presented this data as best as possible given current constraints. For reasons that are not clear, three countries in particular (Latvia, Finland and Germany) would appear to us to be somewhat low while Australia seems somewhat high, compared to other countries. To the extent this represents measurement error of some kind, any errors stemming from this source may have knock-on effects within the rankings as data from this indicator feeds into 90% of the affordability score"
So they don't know the reasons?
"Out-of-pocket costs in Finland, which has both a generous loan and a generous grant system, drop to essentially zero. Sweden and Norway also end up with very low costs. Nordic students, in effect, have almost no short-term financial worries. However, this also means that Nordic students graduate, on average, with much higher levels of debt than students elsewhere"
Uhm, why? The student and housing benefits are free and you don't pay them back. BTW, the student benefits in Finland is $408 a month, for a maximum of 55 months, and you get rent subsidies for 80% of your monthly rent.
In 2012-2013 only 33% of students took any kind of state guaranteed student loan. All persons I know do this only short term, and are like some $3000-4000 in debt when they graduate. Most take weekend jobs.
What a crappy study.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
Americans have much more disposable income, much more than 8k a year over Swedes.
So statistically the "average" American with one kid would break even with the Swede during college years, and would quickly catch up to them and surpass them within a few years if they have to pay for multiple kids. I know this is very difficult to accept, but it is basic math. I also don't except to be able to convince you otherwise. There are Scandinavians here in my area and let's be honest, they shouldn't have a reason to leave the way Mexicans do but still they do it to get away from things like this. It is always interesting though how some of you like to gloat about paying your money to the government and then when you get a small percentage of it back and you call it "free". Sounds like a sucker's racket.
No, the poorest 30% of the population in Sweden have a higher disposable income than the poorest 30% in the US, while the 4th decile are roughly even. Look at post #1669.
You can convince me by showing stats. It's equally difficult for you guys to understand all the benefits we are able to get during childhood, youth, education, and more. You're only blindly looking at wages.
"We have presented this data as best as possible given current constraints. For reasons that are not clear, three countries in particular (Latvia, Finland and Germany) would appear to us to be somewhat low while Australia seems somewhat high, compared to other countries. To the extent this represents measurement error of some kind, any errors stemming from this source may have knock-on effects within the rankings as data from this indicator feeds into 90% of the affordability score"
So they don't knowthe reasons?
"Out-of-pocket costs in Finland, which has both a generous loan and a generous grant system, drop to essentially zero. Sweden and Norway also end up with very low costs. Nordic students, in effect, have almost no short-term financial worries. However, this also means that Nordic students graduate, on average, with much higher levels of debt than students elsewhere"
Uhm, why? The student and housing benefits are free and you don't pay them back. BTW, the student benefits in Finland is $408 a month, for a maximum of 55 months, and you get rent subsidies for 80% of your monthly rent.
In 2012-2013 only 33% of students took any kind of state guaranteed student loan. All persons I know do this only short term, and are like some $3000-4000 when they graduate. Most take weekend jobs.
What a crappy study.
........I never denied that Nordic countries have great education systems. You were arguing that the American lifestyle is some how disastrous due to university costs, and you are dead wrong. None of this compares disposable income in the US (which is much higher) to Sweden and factors this into university costs. What you have posted fails to make this comparison.
For the 1/500 families that this scenario happens to this may be true (less so since Americans have Obamacare now)
That hasn't changed with Obamacare. People can still go bankrupt from the cost of their co-pays for expensive procedures. And it happens more often than you think.
........I never denied that Nordic countries have great education systems. You were arguing that the American lifestyle is some how disastrous due to university costs, and you are dead wrong. None of this compares disposable income in the US (which is much higher) to Sweden and factors this into university costs. What you have posted fails to make this comparison.
The point is that a lot of the disposable income in the US isn't truly disposable. It gets tied up in savings for children's college education, health insurance and co-pays, and other basics that are benefits in European countries. The true measure of disposable income is what's left after subtracting those expenses in the US.
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