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Seriously though, in France I find a lot of young people with kids totally skip over the true suburbs and instead want to be "rurbains" (rural urbanites), because the word "banlieue" is tainted for them and evokes poorly-maintained dehumanizing commie blocks.
This is much more complicated than that because when you look most of the suburbs, those are made of little house detached house.
Often, the bad areas are in inner city or in areas at the close periphery of the inner city
The further suburbs are middle or upper middle class.
In my opinion the main culprits are the needs of space and prices and the availability.
To limit the sprawl, the suburban development is limited in many areas (protected lands, difficulty to built...)
So this is in rural municipalities outside the urban area that you can built more freely. Have bigger land with a cheaper price.
This is much more complicated than that because when you look most of the suburbs, those are made of little house detached house.
Often, the bad areas are in inner city or in areas at the close periphery of the inner city
The further suburbs are middle or upper middle class.
In my opinion the main culprits are the needs of space and prices and the availability.
To limit the sprawl, the suburban development is limited in many areas (protected lands, difficulty to built...)
So this is in rural municipalities outside the urban area that you can built more freely. Have bigger land with a cheaper price.
Agree on all points but as you know it's the word "banlieue" that is tainted in people's minds all the same.
When Parisians think of "banlieue", the places that instantly come to mind aren't Neuilly-sur-Seine, Versailles, Le Vésinet, even though these are all the "banlieue" as well.
I realize homes might be much smaller on average in Europe but 1000 square feet is considered a relatively small house in the US. In Philadelphia and other cities it is common to live in even smaller apartments though. The house in Philly I grew up in was a little over 2000 square feet but I had 5 siblings along with my parents.
Now, I live in an attached house (rowhome) with a front porch, living room, dining room, kitchen and backyard on the first floor, 3 bedrooms and bathroom upstairs along with a basement with laundry and half bath. There are two of us here along with my dog and it doesn't feel too big at all. The utility costs are also pretty reasonable.
Something like this block that is in my neighborhood (although these are probably ~1200-1400 sq ft).
Ok, great! So what are you using the rooms for, if there's just you and your life partner and the dog? Can you approximately define how big the kitchen, dining room (what the hell is that, we don't have those here ) and the living room are? Just for comparison.
Personally, I think the traditionally more cramped living conditions in Europe has left a stain on how homes should be like, and people with families don't even want to have more space than they really need. My mother and stepfather are very comfortably upper middle-class, but when we moved to that house some 20 years ago, it was all we needed. My room (which is now my brother's), is just a 140 sq ft small room, but it did the trick, and I never craved for more space. And neither does my brother until he decides to fly away. Anyway, we lingered around in the kitchen, the living room or the yard in summer.
Couples that move together and aren't planning on getting kids in the near future usually buy or rent one-bedroom homes that are in the range of around 540-650 sq ft. And this is for all income levels. Most Finnish cities had an average minimum housing restriction of 810 sq ft an apartment, known as the infamous 75 m2 rule, but that was dropped some 5 years ago, as single people and couples wanted smaller apartments, and simply people don't want to pay for more space that they need.
Though it depends on the city and whether people have been living in the city center all their life or not, whether they're relying on the image portrayed by the media or on first-hand experience. Within my family in Toulouse, when people use the word "banlieue", they usually portray places like this: https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=tourne...104.91,,0,6.72
To limit the sprawl, the suburban development is limited in many areas (protected lands, difficulty to built...)
Which is creating more problems than it solves imo. Among them, artificially high housing prices and longer commutes for those who seek the "suburban lifestyle" at all costs.
Ah, crap. Sorry, my head isn't really that good on conversions. I think our home is like 1600 sq ft then.
That is smaller than a middle-class North American home, isn't it? .
I believe that many of the homes built in the 50s-60s-70s in the US were that size.
And then starting in the 1980s they started getting a lot bigger, and then bigger still in the 90s, and since the 2000s they started to come down a bit. But I don't think it's gone back down to the 1500 sq ft range.
My house is 2200 sq ft or 200 m2. Plus we have a finished basement that adds another 75 m2 or about 900 sq ft.
This is bigger than the average in Quebec: houses in Quebec are smaller than in the rest of Canada and the US. The average house size in my city is probably around 1500 sq ft and there are plenty of new houses that get built that are 1200 sq ft even.
We are four people (two adults and two kids) in our house but we often have people staying with us - mostly relatives from other parts of Canada. Don't ask why - it's complicated.
We have five bedrooms and so each of our two kids has their own bedroom.
Their bedrooms are about the same size as the one you described: about 140 sq ft.
Our piece of land is about 800 m2 or 9000 sq ft (rough calculations, officially it is in m2). The house is fairly close to the street and so the back yard is about 30 m wide by 20 m deep.
Though it depends on the city and whether people have been living in the city center all their life or not, whether they're relying on the image portrayed by the media or on first-hand experience. Within my family in Toulouse, when people use the word "banlieue", they usually portray places like this: https://maps.google.fr/maps?q=tourne...104.91,,0,6.72
Which is creating more problems than it solves imo. Among them, artificially high housing prices and longer commutes for those who seek the "suburban lifestyle" at all costs.
One of the reasons why people are flocking again to the cities here are that they are quite different from the old downtowns in France. Much greener, less dense and tbh, much more bike-friendly as well. All that matters to people.
I just took a street on random in Lyon, and I definitely know people in some areas live a lot denser in poor conditions with terrible insulation and soundproofing. I love city life, but can't take it if some moron is having an argument every night so that I can't sleep.
Big and medium inner cities in France are quite popular (and growing again since the 2000's), it is the small towns that are really suffering of desertification.
The 2nd arrondissement of Lyon (in your link) had 27,970 inh in 1999 and 30,575 inh in 2011.
But if inner cities are popular among the young, it is difficult for middle class families to live here.
Small apartments, expensive prices, too much activity and a less safe environment for kids.
We know in terms of QOL rankings, it is all European countries (plus Canada/Australia), but let's be more realistic here. I have known many Europeans who went to the US and never wanted to leave, so there must be something attractive about America.
Higher salary, lower taxes and cheaper housing come into mind. I am sure the real purchasing power is higher in America, probably substantially.
Everything is much much cheaper in the US, including cars and gaselines. With automobiles, you have more flexibility to go to the natural and venture into wherever you want, not where public transit is capable of bringing you. Gas price is like 3 times high in France than in the US.
I know consumerism is frowned upon by many, but for most, purchasing power is crucial in terms of quality of life. America is simply very affordable, including many of its largest cities, at least by Europe standards.
But on the other hand, Americans cities are more boring, less beautiful. Density is low and there is too much suburbs. Dependence on cars is a negative too.
Do you (sometimes) envy American lifestyle?
Never at all ,although I have relations whom I have not seen in years, I will not go there ,but would like to go to S. America ,or Russia . What are Americans anyway ,but europeans who have lost their way ?
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) and the living room are? Just for comparison.
