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It's obvious that Italy has more overall GDP than Spain because the population of Italy is 60 million while Spain's one is 46 million. Italy is a democracy from the 2nd world war, Spain, from 1975. And in the period 1975-2015 Spain surpassed Italy in GDP per capita and wages, as in quality of life, both have the same quality of health care, safety or life expectancy; as Spain has the 1st life expectancy in Europe.
I think that I have to repeat this post again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junter
Much wealthier? You had a dream about that, huh? Or you went back to the Roman Empire? Coz the reality doesn't agree with you. EURES source.
The inequality is tremendous on Italy, it can be compared to countries which are developing now. The north of Italy is rich, the northern half has money... and the south is totally poor, not even a region in the middle which balances it. Now let's talk about corruption; Italy is corrupt as Greece, Romania or Senegal.
take also a look at this
Spanish GDP per capita surpasses Italy's for the first time. Look at this discussion (you have the source there which proves it) to see how italians speak well, because we are brothers and we haven't got to fight between each others. Now look at your post and compare it to that page... It's cool when you start to invent numbers, now I will show you the reality. Also, the only ones which were talking good about Spain were italians, so please read better or relax your sphincter because Italy has nothing to do with Spain nowadays, the Roman Empire has gone buddy.
Take note that until 1975 Spain was a dictactorship and a barely 2nd world country, while Italy had 30 years in advance when Mussolini died. In 20 years, Spain uprised his GDP per capita 4 or 5 times. That's more than the "Asian Tigers".
Unemployment rate in Spain declined in more than 2 million people from 2013 to today, that means that in only 3 years more than 2 million people achieved a job, something comparable to macro-economies like Mexico or Brazil, countries with hundreds of millions of inhabitants, not 46 millions whom 15 millions are kids or pensioners. Nowadays is 19%, while in Italy remains at 12%. Anyways, in Spain the immigrant unemployment inflates very much the rate as the immigrants arrived to have an unemployment rate close to 40%; spaniards never excedeed 15%.
Anyways, Spain has is 8th biggest welfare state in the world; and the high unemployment rate from the last crisis affected mainly immigrants as Spain is the 10th country in the world with the biggest amount of immigrants. Italy has some thousands less than Spain; but the population of Italy is 60 million while on Spain is 46 million so now take note at the impact on the economy. Anyways; those migrants prefered to stay in Spain with social aids rather than working, as the minimum social aids are 426€; a couple having that aid can pay a rent for a small appartment, eat, pay the bills, and even they can have a cheap car and pay the gas for it.
I found lots of italians talking trash about Spain and talking false things and inventing numbers, like this guy from above (not you hobbesdj). Why so many italians suffer from complexity to Spain? I consider the italians as brothers (although i'm half spanish half dutch), Spain and Italy are totally brothers, their genetics are 95% similar, the languages are so similar, the buildings, religion, all. Why this hate from the italians to the spanish? I've never found in my entire life a single spaniard talking bad about Italy, while in Spain I've found even italians living here talking bad about Spain! In Spain, as one italian said in the 1st page, there are loooooooots of italians, more than peruvians for example; and in the last economic crisis the number of italians increased, while the number of romanians or poles for example decreased.
European brothers, we have to unite, not to fight. !
Anyways Italy and Spain are so similar in many aspects: religion, people, genetics, language, culture, history, food, cultivars, even buildings and the style of architecture and construction. Unless some exceptions, Italy's and Spain's buildings are 95% the same. I'm half dutch and half spanish and I've never heard any spanish person talking bad about Italy. In fact there are almost 200.000 italians in Spain, they can't be distinguished from spanish people because they're brothers unless some exceptions. Denying this is like denying that the people from Flanders and the ones from Netherlands are different people.
WHO is the leading world health organisation...the most accurate organisation to say which country has the best health care system between both. And Italy wins.
But I would prefer living in Spain
WHO is the leading world health organisation...the most accurate organisation to say which country has the best health care system between both. And Italy wins.
But I would prefer living in Spain
I've said that both countries have about the same health care system buddy (that's why I've put the overall waiting time for pacients in Europe), I've only said that the life expectancy is higher.
Of course the WHO is the most important source for this! Anyways from the 2nd place to the 7th place isn't very much, as isn't very much difference in the HDI between Spain and Italy and between the
life expectancy for both countries (Spain is the 1st in Europe and Italy is the 3rd, the 2nd is Switzerland). The average wage is also 1.734€ for Spain and 1.560€ for Italy, which is pretty similar too.
That's why I'm saying that it's senseless to compare between 2 countries which are one of the most related countries in the world, in overall they're 95% the same.
WHO is the leading world health organisation...the most accurate organisation to say which country has the best health care system between both. And Italy wins.
But I would prefer living in Spain
That's why I'm saying that it's senseless to compare between 2 countries which are one of the most related countries in the world, in overall they're 95% the same.
About this, I don't know how accurate this evaluation is for Spain, but for Italy I would not trust that number too much.
I'm quite sure that improb already named it, but I want to repeat it: don't underestimate the "lavoro in nero" in Italy (wikipedia calls it "Unreported employment" )
In this case the problem is spread all over the country, and in many different ways. On the one hand there are people whose job condition is completely unreported, and that officially don't have any job nor earning. They can be workers hired with this modality, usually workers in the building sector of in agriculture, or domestic workers (people you hire for keeping your house clean, or for looking after old people for example). In this case there are also situations in which the workers are on the edge of work exploitation.
Other people whose work is completely unreported are some people who work in their own such as carpenters, plumbers, I also know some hairdressers that work like this. You recognize them because, when you pay them for their work, they never give you any receipt (no receipt = no taxes)
On the other hand, there are situation that are midway between tax evasion and unreported work. In practice there are a certain number of people that officially have a regular job, but that claim to have a much lower income than their real one for paying less taxes. One of the easiest example are are the bar owner that don't make the sale receipt for all the drinks he sell. This is a method for hiding a part of your income to the State, and for paying less taxes.
Another expedient is to make a sale receipt that report a lower payment than the real one.
This method is used by a certain percentage of people who work in their own, such as people who own a restaurant, bar, shop... , little entrepreneurs and freelance workers such as lawyers, architects, private doctors and dentists and so on.
For example a quite common situation when you have to pay a private doctor or a dentist, or a notary, they will ask you: do you want the receipt? If you answer yes, you will probably have to pay an additional price for it.
But how many of them are tax evaders? Right now I have only found this article, which is dated 2012. So the data can be a little old.
Anyway, if you want some numbers:
Taxes were evaded by the 67.3% of gardeners, 62.8% of carpenters/woodworkers, 62% of plumbers, 60.1% of construction workers ... and the lower among the artisans are the installers of heating-cooling plants with the 18% of tax evaders.
Among the business owners, the 17.8% of bar owners didn't make the sale receipt (*this was in 2012, after that there was more attention toward bars), followed by the 17.2% of restaurant, pubs and pizzerie.
Among freelance workers, the 42.7% of lawyers didn't make the fiscal receipt, followed by the "geometri"(*) 40.2%, psychologists and psychiatrists 40%, architects 38.7%, dietitians 38%, specialist medics and dentists 34%. Then there are veterinarians 25.3%, "commercialisti" (**) 23.5% and notaries 19.6%.
(*) the sector of the "liberi professionisti", that in here I have translated as "freelance workers", is really complicated. Anyway, the "geometri" are technicians specialized in land use (for example you have to see a geometra if you want to make a new building). They are really good at technical drawing too.
(**) ironically, the "commercialisti" are the people you call for the papers related to your earnings. you can also ask them to write your papers for the taxes (tax statement and so) for example. Often tax evaders need the collaboration of a "commercialista" for evading.
In conclusion, in Italy there is a really large hidden economy and tax evasion. Some people do this because taxes in here are really high and so in some cases it is hard to survive. There are several cases of people who declared bankrupt because the taxes were too high.
On the other hand, there are also people who evade taxes and that are really rich. For example there are people that claim really low incomes, but that own huge cars and a second house in a famous place.
Anyway, the situation is really complicated and there are a lot of different situation, in general we can only say that tax evasion and unreported employment should not be underestimated in here.
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