Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-05-2016, 12:12 PM
 
570 posts, read 607,356 times
Reputation: 243

Advertisements

Junter.-
I very much agree with you.-

As good man Spanish Italy is my favorite but its beauty is mixed a lot of chaos in this country.

The Spaniards comparatively we are very disciplined .-
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-05-2016, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Finland
24,128 posts, read 24,894,433 times
Reputation: 11103
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
According to some sources, it is


The Best Health Care in Europe - Business Insider





Some put it near the bottom of the barrel.

I can assure you that Finland has NOT the 4th best healthcare in Europe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2016, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Kingdom of pain, Southern Europe
1,304 posts, read 1,133,078 times
Reputation: 1297
Here's a picture of the richest city in Spain:
Spoiler


Now compare to this picture of the poorest town in Italy:
Spoiler
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2016, 12:41 PM
 
10,889 posts, read 2,202,240 times
Reputation: 3323
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2016, 06:07 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 2,631,495 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arigarisha View Post
Here's a picture of the richest city in Spain:


Now compare to this picture of the poorest town in Italy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JZkl2O-Cb8
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-05-2016, 06:17 PM
 
3,326 posts, read 2,631,495 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urania93 View Post
About the comparison between the two countries, I've found this site --> http://country-facts.findthedata.com...Italy-vs-Spain

that summarizes a lot of different data. Anyway, I don't know how much accurate it is.



About this, I don't know how accurate this evaluation is for Spain, but for Italy I would not trust that number too much.
I'm quite sure that improb already named it, but I want to repeat it: don't underestimate the "lavoro in nero" in Italy (wikipedia calls it "Unreported employment" )

In this case the problem is spread all over the country, and in many different ways. On the one hand there are people whose job condition is completely unreported, and that officially don't have any job nor earning. They can be workers hired with this modality, usually workers in the building sector of in agriculture, or domestic workers (people you hire for keeping your house clean, or for looking after old people for example). In this case there are also situations in which the workers are on the edge of work exploitation.
Other people whose work is completely unreported are some people who work in their own such as carpenters, plumbers, I also know some hairdressers that work like this. You recognize them because, when you pay them for their work, they never give you any receipt (no receipt = no taxes)

On the other hand, there are situation that are midway between tax evasion and unreported work. In practice there are a certain number of people that officially have a regular job, but that claim to have a much lower income than their real one for paying less taxes. One of the easiest example are are the bar owner that don't make the sale receipt for all the drinks he sell. This is a method for hiding a part of your income to the State, and for paying less taxes.
Another expedient is to make a sale receipt that report a lower payment than the real one.

This method is used by a certain percentage of people who work in their own, such as people who own a restaurant, bar, shop... , little entrepreneurs and freelance workers such as lawyers, architects, private doctors and dentists and so on.
For example a quite common situation when you have to pay a private doctor or a dentist, or a notary, they will ask you: do you want the receipt? If you answer yes, you will probably have to pay an additional price for it.

But how many of them are tax evaders? Right now I have only found this article, which is dated 2012. So the data can be a little old.
Anyway, if you want some numbers:
Taxes were evaded by the 67.3% of gardeners, 62.8% of carpenters/woodworkers, 62% of plumbers, 60.1% of construction workers ... and the lower among the artisans are the installers of heating-cooling plants with the 18% of tax evaders.

Among the business owners, the 17.8% of bar owners didn't make the sale receipt (*this was in 2012, after that there was more attention toward bars), followed by the 17.2% of restaurant, pubs and pizzerie.

Among freelance workers, the 42.7% of lawyers didn't make the fiscal receipt, followed by the "geometri"(*) 40.2%, psychologists and psychiatrists 40%, architects 38.7%, dietitians 38%, specialist medics and dentists 34%. Then there are veterinarians 25.3%, "commercialisti" (**) 23.5% and notaries 19.6%.

(*) the sector of the "liberi professionisti", that in here I have translated as "freelance workers", is really complicated. Anyway, the "geometri" are technicians specialized in land use (for example you have to see a geometra if you want to make a new building). They are really good at technical drawing too.
(**) ironically, the "commercialisti" are the people you call for the papers related to your earnings. you can also ask them to write your papers for the taxes (tax statement and so) for example. Often tax evaders need the collaboration of a "commercialista" for evading.

In conclusion, in Italy there is a really large hidden economy and tax evasion. Some people do this because taxes in here are really high and so in some cases it is hard to survive. There are several cases of people who declared bankrupt because the taxes were too high.
On the other hand, there are also people who evade taxes and that are really rich. For example there are people that claim really low incomes, but that own huge cars and a second house in a famous place.

Anyway, the situation is really complicated and there are a lot of different situation, in general we can only say that tax evasion and unreported employment should not be underestimated in here.
You see? Practically the same countries... Here also happens the same bro.

España registra entre 2 y 3 millones de empleos en 'negro' Spain registers between 2 and 3 million employers without contract (in Spanish is know as "black employment" or "B employment") this was when the country had 5 million unemployed people, now you subtract the amount of people earning social aids or living on welfare, the amount of people earning subsidies, the amount of people working without contract and voilá... This is why Spain looks better in 2016 than in 2008 even after the country passed the 2nd worst crisis in it's history. And that's why the life expectancy just kept growing and growing.

In fact a lot of people earn social welfare and work without contract, many of whom foreigners (I just say this as data, I'm not racist or something like that... I'm half dutch lol); as foreigners in Spain arrived to have an unemployment close to 38% in 2012 and less than 600.000 abandoned the country until 2016 (Ah, I've forgot to say that also many made themselves Spanish citizens). How is this possible, if 38 of every 100 foreign persons were unemployed? Is just common sense...I've put the map before, Spain has one of the biggest welfare systems in the world, among with Italy. Spanish GDP is estimated to be about 18% higher because of this black economy. The same for wages; lots of people earn legally 300-400-500€ less a month than what they earn in the reality, decreasing the official average national wage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top