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In Europe, rural Russians in north east Russia, as well as the populations of rural Ireland, Scandanavia, some parts of Italy, and Switzerland and the Sa'ami are probably in the same boat at the Japanese.
No, rural Russians in north Russia are definitely a mix. My mothers side of the family comes from there (kondopoga, karelia), and there is A LOT of admixture from various Finn tribes, and even Kvens and Norwegians further north. I think even using DNA analyses, the Russians in that region are like 25% finno-ugric.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
Who? And how many? 1000? 2000? 5000?
I'd say all of the Russians in rural north, who were settled there before Soviet Union, have at least some Finnish/Karelian/Scandinavian blood in them. Not just Finnish (although it might be the majority), Norwegian and Swedish as well. The Norwegians in particular even had their own language dialect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russenorsk
No, rural Russians in north Russia are definitely a mix. My mothers side of the family comes from there (kondopoga, karelia), and there is A LOT of admixture from various Finn tribes, and even Kvens and Norwegians further north. I think even using DNA analyses, the Russians in that region are like 25% finno-ugric.
That is a good point. The imperial russians started to russify the Karelia area in the 17th century by enouraging Russian settlers, renaming place names with Russian names, and encoruaging a slow replacement of finno ugaric languages with Russian.
That aside, I think the area around Novgorod would be the place to look for the the original slavic- or at least Russian DNA. The oblast is home to the Russian dialect with the most archaic features and as these birch bark letters indicate, has been slavic Russian for a very long time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_bark_manuscript
Lots of high mountains make it hard for invaders and traders. Then factor in that the swiss have a historical reputation for being pretty fierce fighters both at home and abroad. Switzerland has not been conquered in ages and the popes are not the only people to note that Swiss mecenaries earn their pay.
Most Swiss don't live in the isolated parts of Switzerland, though. They live on the Swiss plain. The Romans managed to conquer and run Switzerland for 3 centuries. In current times, 300,000 people commute from France, Germany and Italy into Switzerland every day. It's a myth that the Swiss are "isolated." Even the Swiss "Alpine' culture is very similar to alpine culture in Italy, France and Austria.
A lot of European countries have surnames that seem to indicate "foreign" ancestry - that the original bearer was from another country or tied to another place. These seem to be testimony to past flows of people.
In England, for instance, there are Welch/Walsh, Scott, French, and maybe Flanders.
In Spanish, Alemán (German) and Franco (Frank) are common surnames.
Hungary and other central European countries have names like Nemeth/Nemets (German) and Horvath (Croat).
No, rural Russians in north Russia are definitely a mix. My mothers side of the family comes from there (kondopoga, karelia), and there is A LOT of admixture from various Finn tribes, and even Kvens and Norwegians further north. I think even using DNA analyses, the Russians in that region are like 25% finno-ugric.
I'd say all of the Russians in rural north, who were settled there before Soviet Union, have at least some Finnish/Karelian/Scandinavian blood in them. Not just Finnish (although it might be the majority), Norwegian and Swedish as well. The Norwegians in particular even had their own language dialect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russenorsk
Certainly there is a mix, but I think you overestimate the percentage. Most of Karelia was very remote and sparsely populated, for example the Kola Norwegians weren't more than a couple of thousand individuals. In Murmansk Oblast there was 40,000 people who listed Ukrainian as their ethnicity in 2010.
Certainly there is a mix, but I think you overestimate the percentage. Most of Karelia was very remote and sparsely populated, for example the Kola Norwegians weren't more than a couple of thousand individuals. In Murmansk Oblast there was 40,000 people who listed Ukrainian as their ethnicity in 2010.
I think you are definitely underestimating percentages. If you quiz any Russians living in those regions on their relatives, they all would have at least some relation to other scandinavian or finno-ugric peoples, at least this is in my personal experience. You can also look at their last names, most of them are not traditional Russian names like Ivanov either. The Russians in that region had contact with finno-ugric, baltic, and scandinavian peoples for over a thousand years, the original rulers of Novgorod were Swedes. Trust me, there was a lot of inter marriage and mixing in the villages during pre-Soviet Union days. Here is a wiki map, which is fairly accurate in my opinion if you actually talk to people on the ground, the red R1a group is the slavic group, now look at northern Russia:
New Texico, England is not an Anglo Saxon nation, our bloodlines are the same ( nearly) as the Welsh ( Welch) or the Scots ( though Scott is an actual English surname). Britain is the true name, England and Wales is a POLITICAL ad on. Do you think the Eceni people of Boudica1s time left that land, no, they still dwelt in what is now Norfolk, does not mean they are Anglo-Saxon. That is why you find so called Scottish, Welsh, Irish names throughout England ( still a 75% Celtic majority country) and so called English names in Wales, Scotland and \Ireland. Britain should just be renamed the British Isles, consign England, Wales, Scotland to the scrapbooks
I've heard Putin has finnic ancestry. He looks very Finno Ugric.
I think he looks quite stereotypically Russian.
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