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Taxes in those countries are not that low. This is how much average income people pay in tax.
Germany: 49%
France: 48%
Italy: 48%
Portugal: 41%
Spain: 41%
Greece: 40%
Those 8% in lower taxes do not give them a lot extra income. If they were true low tax countries, then you might have a point.
It really depends on which services you may get back from your taxes. This is something Americans usually have a hard time understanding but you get benefits back for the extra taxes you pay, just try comparing the health system that's offered in France and Italy to the one that's enforced in Greece, try comparing the unemployment cheques, how the State handles it and tries to fight it, the previdential system, ecc.
This is my source. Jämför skatter mellan länder Didn't link to it because it is not in english, but it is much easier to understand than your german link.
Most government in Europe spend 50% of GDP. They can't have 30% tax on average earners, and still get enough money. In fact average earners are often taxed more than 50%, because they need to compensate for the people who dodge and avoid taxes.
According to this tax calculator, someone who earns €3000 a month in Germany will earn €1900. However, they didn't mention employer contribution which is about €500. Hence someone who earns €3000 a month in Germany pays 47% in tax. On top of this, they will also need to pay fees and GST.
This makes sense.
Damn after paying 50% you better get free healthcare!!!
I assume it is better to have a business rather than being an employee.
And with latest refugee and welfare nonsense this money is not well spent
This is my source. Jämför skatter mellan länder Didn't link to it because it is not in english, but it is much easier to understand than your german link.
Most government in Europe spend 50% of GDP. They can't have 30% tax on average earners, and still get enough money. In fact average earners are often taxed more than 50%, because they need to compensate for the people who dodge and avoid taxes.
According to this tax calculator, someone who earns €3000 a month in Germany will earn €1900. However, they didn't mention employer contribution which is about €500. Hence someone who earns €3000 a month in Germany pays 47% in tax. On top of this, they will also need to pay fees and GST.
What means average earner? Married? Single? How many kids? What is the amount of tax-deductible spendings?
The upper half of earners pay almost 95% of the income tax, the lower half just a little bit above 5%.
Public spendings in Germany is about 43.9% of GDP.
Someone who earns €3,000 a month, married with 2 children, pays only about 11% tax or with the employer contribution about 24%.
And more important. All those tax ratios figures don't consider cash benefits that people get in return. It never makes sense to compare just rate of taxes between different countries.
Damn after paying 50% you better get free healthcare!!!
I assume it is better to have a business rather than being an employee.
And with latest refugee and welfare nonsense this money is not well spent
No, it doesn't make sense. Before you can judge the situation in other countries you should live at least 5 years in those countries
The average tax burden of an employee is about 33-34%, or about 43% if you include the employers contribution.
The biggest part of the tax revenues goes into pension and healthcare. Do you think pensions and health care is welfare nonsense?
Spendings for refugees are negligible. It's less than 0.5% of GDP.
What means average earner? Married? Single? How many kids? What is the amount of tax-deductible spendings?
The upper half of earners pay almost 95% of the income tax, the lower half just a little bit above 5%.
Public spendings in Germany is about 43.9% of GDP.
Someone who earns €3,000 a month, married with 2 children, pays only about 11% tax or with the employer contribution about 24%.
And more important. All those tax ratios figures don't consider cash benefits that people get in return. It never makes sense to compare just rate of taxes between different countries.
Why are making things up? Using the tax calculator, and adding employer contributions, they will still need to pay 38% in tax. If you include GST and other fees, then it become almost 50%.
Think about that. A household income of just €3000 is very low to support a family of 4 people, they are going to be poor. Even people in that situation have to give half of what they earn to the government.
No, it doesn't make sense. Before you can judge the situation in other countries you should live at least 5 years in those countries
The average tax burden of an employee is about 33-34%, or about 43% if you include the employers contribution.
The biggest part of the tax revenues goes into pension and healthcare. Do you think pensions and health care is welfare nonsense?
Spendings for refugees are negligible. It's less than 0.5% of GDP.
Health care is 11.4%, Pension is 10.6%, it doesn't add to 43%. In addition, I do think German pension spending is too high. People should save up for their own retirement, Government should just provide minimum level of benefits.
Also, spending for refugees is higher than the official figures tell you, because
1. In addition to housing and benefits, they also rely on public services. These costs are not recorded as refugee costs.
2. Most of them were only in Germany since summer 2015, hence their cost in 2015 is much smaller than 2016.
3. Not sure if this is valid in Germany, but most countries only show estimated cost, not real cost.
But actually the main concern about refugee costs is that it is cumulative. Over time this will create a massive financial burden.
Health care is 11.4%, Pension is 10.6%, it doesn't add to 43%. In addition, I do think German pension spending is too high. People should save up for their own retirement, Government should just provide minimum level of benefits.
Also, spending for refugees is higher than the official figures tell you, because
1. In addition to housing and benefits, they also rely on public services. These costs are not recorded as refugee costs.
2. Most of them were only in Germany since summer 2015, hence their cost in 2015 is much smaller than 2016.
3. Not sure if this is valid in Germany, but most countries only show estimated cost, not real cost.
But actually the main concern about refugee costs is that it is cumulative. Over time this will create a massive financial burden.
They won't be able to carry them.
And these refugees are mostly useless cause you can't give them even basic jobs.
Why are making things up? Using the tax calculator, and adding employer contributions, they will still need to pay 43% in tax. If you include GST and other fees, then it increases to about 50%.
Think about that. A household income of just €3000 is very low to support a family of 4 people, they are going to be poor. Even people in that situation have to give half of what they earn to the government.
Sorry, but that's nonsense. 24% is not 50%.
Family of 4 with gross income of €5,000 will get a net income of about €3,860 (including child allowance). That's an average tax rate of about 23%, or about 34% if you include employer contribution.
Do you think you are able to use the tax calculator properly? I guess I wouldn't be able to use a tax calculator for the U.S. or for Sweden properly.
It's also absurd to say, the money goes to the government. What the government is doing with the money? Will it disappear? It goes mainly to pensions, health care, other cash benefits, social services and so on.
Family of 4 with gross income of €5,000 will get a net income of about €3,860 (including child allowance). That's an average tax rate of about 23%, or about 34% if you include employer contribution.
Do you think you are able to use the tax calculator properly? I guess I wouldn't be able to use a tax calculator for the U.S. or for Sweden properly.
No, your 24% figure is total nonsense. Go to the calculator, insert 3000, use category 3 for married couple, and 2 children. The result is €2185. The employer is paying €3500.
So what is (3500 - 2185) / 3500? Certainly not 24%.
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It's also absurd to say, the money goes to the government. What the government is doing with the money? Will it disappear? It goes mainly to pensions, health care, other cash benefits, social services and so on.
A lot of the time it is wasted on people who do not need government help. For instance they give out high pensions, they pay public workers way above market rate, they have widespread disability fraud, and they waste money on projects that aren't really needed.
In addition, it is important to have limits on how much they can spend on one person. It makes little sense to spend 1 million euro to keep someone alive one year, when homeless people are freezing to death on the streets.
Health care is 11.4%, Pension is 10.6%, it doesn't add to 43%.
Sorry, but what do you mean with that? Percentages of GDP? No one says that public spendings goes completely to health care and pensions.
Quote:
In addition, I do think German pension spending is too high. People should save up for their own retirement, Government should just provide minimum level of benefits.
I agree with this
Quote:
Also, spending for refugees is higher than the official figures tell you, because
1. In addition to housing and benefits, they also rely on public services. These costs are not recorded as refugee costs.
2. Most of them were only in Germany since summer 2015, hence their cost in 2015 is much smaller than 2016.
3. Not sure if this is valid in Germany, but most countries only show estimated cost, not real cost.
But actually the main concern about refugee costs is that it is cumulative. Over time this will create a massive financial burden.
No one knows how much it will cost. We even don't know how many refugees live in Germany at the moment and how many will stay here. There are many different estimates. A gloomy scenario predicts for 2016 about 0.5% of GDP, but that's gross spendings, without counting increasing tax revenues. So net spendings will be lower. And in the long run it will be a gain for the economy and the social security system.
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